Spenser

Hello, I am new to this discussion forum and this post may just be completely stupid as much of what I say may be construed so, or perhaps its just genius (to me at least). God, does this rather pompous fellow exists or is it merely the product of billions of imaginations? What came first, God or man, much like the question the chicken or the egg. The Egg silly (I'll use the word silly rather than stupid in many cases), as any evolutionist would probably tell you seeing as the egg of the first chicken was mostly likely a mutant laid by something that was not quite chicken, even if it tasted like it.

If the God of today was anything like the God of a thousand years ago then maybe I could at least say the lack of change in God over the ages provides some sort of consistent story to who this oversized know-it-all is. Apparently though, the God of yesterday seemed to think raping and pillaging the homes of your enemies was pretty cool. Though I don't particulary like one of my neighbors I'm not sure how morally just it would be to go take his wife for a test spin, or better yet, swear at his fruit trees for not bearing anything out of season.

As far as I see it religion is a play on the emotions and for those who cannot accept mere faith as reason enough to hold their beliefs, let their insecurities draw them into arguments they can never win. Now as far as the human intellect can see, scientifically at least, the universe is a closed system; we cannot see beyond, outside of, or before it. There may be something outside of it, but this something we cannot perceive much less attribute such things as intellect or morality. If this thing could exist outside of space and time (um what?) and could interact with the universe, it would have to at least obey the rules of space and time during its interactions. (Wow, I hear all the accusations of assertion already.) If Mr. All Powerful split the Red Sea, whatever force (or farce) that was causing the water to disobey the rules of gravity would have been taking place in real time. Seems any 'having to obey of rules' places limits on Mr. Limitless else sea splitting would have always been a natural and scientifically possible phenomenon and except for that cool little ride at Universal Studios, I'm pretty sure its not. This barely coherent circle I just argued may be pointless, or it may just hold some hidden merit, silly.

I've never heard a single good argument for the existence of God that doesn't somewhere require a large 'leap of faith' or the complete twisting of logic and reason or better yet, the attacking of atheists ideals / morals rather than the promotion of some sort of proof of the Infinite Prankster.

Things I'm tired of hearing:

"Prove there isn't a God"

Um, you first prove there isn't leprechauns sitting around mumbling "Where are me lucky charms?" The burden of proof goes to the one making a claim, not denying a claim, silly.

"Intelligent Design"

I've seen some of my poops arrange themselves into pretty cool designs in the toilet, and though I may have been the creator, not much intellect went into them. If God's main purpose was to create us in his image then doesn't most everything outside our solar system (or to go farther, galaxy) seem like a tremendous waste of space? Perhaps he was just stroking his own ego creating such a vast place for us to live. Careful God, to much stroking and you could end up with starry palms. There is no basis for comparison, so if we can't see how intelligently designed other universes are (if there are even such things) then how could we say ours was intelligently designed. Perhaps of all the universes God created, ours was pooped into existence.

"Free Will"

God knows everything right, including the future. If the future is laid out already, what choice do we have? If God himself knows the future, he cannot change it, if he could then he couldn't have truly known the future else he would have known he was going to change it and it wouldn't have been the future in the first place but instead his second choice the actual future, right? Mr. I can do everything obviously cannot do everything.

"Uncaused cause"

This is an appeal to logic that seems really to say little. So, lets imagine that something caused the universe which led to all other chain of events till now. Where do omnipotent and omniscient fit in here? How do we know that such things are required to poop us into existence? Here we have another huge leap of faith often presented as reason but its just an assumption. No one wants to make an 'ass' out of 'u' and 'mption' right?

"If you believe, you could goto heaven, but if their is a God and you don't believe you goto hell. No harm in believing but possible damnation if you don't so might as well believe, just in case."

Lets see, there are how many God's created by humans on this planet and how many different hells I could goto. Gee, hope I pick the right one...

I JUST REALIZED!!! There are a million things I'm tired of hearing from theists so I'm gonna stop bringing them up for now but I'd like to present my own simple argument. Being simple like I am hopefully a lot of you will get it. Don't be silly.

Most arguments that try to disprove a defined God attack omnipotence and omniscience right. These usually become arguments of semantics, but lets play along. One oldy is "Can God create a rock he cannot move?" Yeah this has been argued but lets go even simpler.

Can God become a rock? Many theists are quick to think 'yes' but what are they really conceiving. A rock by definition is not omnipotent, omniscient, nor does it have the ability to become so. It doesn't think, its not personal, nor is it morally perfect, generally a rock is something composed of certain molecules and constitutes an object we'd rather not have in our shoes. If God became a 'rock' his ability to turn back into an all powerful all knowing being would cease to exist, along with him. (Maybe that's what happened after he created the universe, he decided to become a rock without thinking of the consequences) If he became a rock but still had the ability to know everything and create anything then he wouldn't truly be a rock now would he? It seems God could never really become anything at all without also being God which seems to place a rather large limit on he who has no limits.

Its the same to say God can never become me. Me by definition has never been God, I don't know what it is like to be God, I'm not all powerful, all knowing and I lack the ability to become so. If I have never known what its like to be God, how can a God have never known what its like to not be God. How could anyone ever know what its like to not be them cause even when they are imagining it they are still themselves at the time. I can imagine what its like to not be me but I'll never know so God could never know what its like to not be God therefore God cannot be (become) me. Say that 10 times fast.

Anyway, perhaps I have created some food for thought, or just maybe I got a couple of you to smile, or maybe everything I have said is just plain silly. The next question I am considering tackling is did Jesus ever fart. How silly.

Jobar

Hiya Spenser, and welcome to II.

We've actually had threads around here wondering if God has genitals- after all, we're supposed to be made in his image, and *we* have them. Adds a whole new meaning to the word 'omnipotence', huh?

So your post, though it's scattered all over the place, is not sillier than others here. You ought to look around and read some of the ongoing threads, and maybe you can explain to some of the theists who come here just why it is *them* who are silly.

Spenser

Jobar,

How dare you agree with me, that's just plain silly. Oh wait, you're on my side. In that case may your poops arrange themselves intelligently in order to create theistic universes that can be so easily flushed down the toilet of logic. I figure if you can't laugh at religion, you're probably a theist...

The potent and scient Spenser

Conchobar

I suspect that the first egg came in the Cambrian with some of the Burgess Shale creatures. But I can't be sure of that. It was definitely around by the Devonian (fish eggs anyway). Hard shell eggs did not likely occur until the late Carboniferous or Pemian periods when reptiles evolved.

God like did not come around until walking primates invented him. I don't know when man invented gods. Modern Humans and Neandertals show evidence of some religious rituals like burial with flowers. But Homo erectus, is still a mystery on whether he invented god or god was strictly a H. sapiens creation.

Conchobar

johngalt

Isn't the argument whether the chicken or the egg came first? Anyway, the egg definitely came first. When the first man was alive, god came after, to explain how he came into being. Such a great explanation!

Fred

I found myself trying to imagine the sight of God laying an egg !

Hi Spencer. I am new here as well. Definately have a good look through the threads because there are many excellent posts.
Cheers, Fred.

Spenser

HA HA! I will shamelessly comment on my own thread for no other reason than to promote it back to the top of the forum list!!!

:notworthy

Conchobar

Now you've done it. You just started a new religion. The Religion of the Omnipotent Cosmic Chicken. This Poultrideity laid a giant age that hatched into the universe and since the evolution of all life beyond unicellular organisms. Now evey being beings as a fertilised egg or ovum.


The eternal question of which came first the Chicken or the egg, it had to be the Omnipotent Cosmic Chicken, who currently resides in another dimension so that we can't see him. It follows then that Jesus was so hard to verify in history because he was a baby chick in an egg that was not fertilised. He went around as a rooster performing miracles but Farmer Joe and his son Jesus go the credit and started Christianity. How did the real rooster Jesus die? He was the main course at the last supper. But the Omnipotent Cosmic Chicken will lay another egg at the beginning of tribulations and the battle of Armageddon.

So, Christians, as you are out there slaughtering heathens, gays, atheists, agnostics, hindus, Jews, Muslims, and vegetarians, DON"T kill that rooster crowing at you on the field of Megiddo. He is the second coming.

Conchobar

Fred

Are you sure he is not the "second helping" ?

Don't forget the gravy !

Spenser

Why do the insecure theists that seem to love arguing here not come and attempt to counter my simple argument? Perhaps they lack the free will to lay silly little eggs of their own. Come to think of it, this past Saturday night when I was lucky enough to be engaging in sexual acts, she kept screaming "Oh God, Oh God, MY GOD!" and I realized. I AM God so God does know exactly what it is like to be me. All this time and I was God, you think I would have suspected sooner...