HelenM

[quote]Originally posted by babelfish:
<strong>

Exactly - if I were a Christian I'd want a teeny bit more info about this place I'm supposed to be so fervently working towards gaining entry into.</strong>

Actually, if you were a Bible-believing Christian you'd believe there will be no sorrow in heaven, because the book of Revelation says so.

Rev 21:4 There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.

And if you were a Bible-believing Christian you wouldn't be working to get into heaven; you'd believe that heaven is the gift of God to all who believe and that in fact it can't be earned.

Eph 2:8-9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God-- not the result of works, so that no one may boast.

Lots of people in the Bible questioned God. It's ok to ask questions. I can't guarantee you'll get answers...but evidently, some people in the Bible who asked questions, did receive answers from God.

Well, that may be true to some extent. But as long as He doesn't tell us less than we need to know, then although it might be annoying not to know certain things, at least our needs are being met...

take care
Helen

babelfish

I can pretty much guarantee that you won't get answers!

Those people in the Bible who said they received answers from God, while I'm sure some of them earnestly believed God spoke to them, as some people earnestly believe that God speaks to them today, were mistaken.

agapeo

My, my! Such surety in what one can guarantee. I can pretty much guarantee that you can't guarantee that I won't get any answers. Shall we compare guarantees?
Were mistaken about what? That God spoke to them or what God spoke to them?

babelfish

Have you been hearing any voices speaking inside your head recently?

agapeo

No! But I've had a few strange thoughts that I've wondered about. Can't imagine why I thought such things. Freaky man! Think I should seek help?

Puck

Douglas has been busy the last couple of days. Give him some time, he may be back.

He and I have been PMing so I've kept him busy, also. He's easier to talk with when he's not having to defend his beliefs en masse. But, I guess maybe that's why he's here.

babelfish

No. Are you attributing your "strange thoughts" to some imaginary guy in the sky? I heard of a guy who had strange thoughts that he was sure were coming from a space-ship that had abducted him and implanted a non-detectable receiving device in his brain! I can't think of a single way to prove he's mistaken, and he probably won't hurt anybody just cause he believes this, so I wouldn't suggest he seek help either. You're not going to hurt anyone, are you?

Douglas J. Bender

Ta Da!! I'm here!! Finally! Is that a round of cheers I hear, or is my tire leaking? By the way, if it wasn't for Helen sending me a Private Message informing me of the existence of this thread, I probably would never have known about it. You people....

There is no possibility of continuing sin in Heaven - once someone in Heaven chooses to sin (probably the moment their hearts choose to rebel), they get the boot, just like Satan and his angels did when they rebelled. But it is a potential possibility that someone in Heaven could choose to sin; but once sin has been done away with (the evil of this world), there will be no more sin, and apparently that potentiality will never be actualized in Heaven.

The angels, including Satan and his fallen angels,
had and have free will. But when they were faced with the choice of rebelling or obeying in Heaven, the choice they made at that time apparently "set" their characters, much like God's character is "set" - those who rebelled will never change their characters, and those who obeyed will always be obedient, because it is "who they are". Prior to their being faced with a choice, they followed their created nature, and obeyed.

The mystery of evil began with Satan's pride, when, in comparing himself with the other angels, he apparently realized that he was more magnificent than they were, or at least one of the top three or so. And he compared himself with God, and apparently deceived himself into thinking that he could take God's place, and thus have more glory and greater privilege than he already had. (No created being can have experiential knowledge of what occurred before they existed - therefore, for all created beings, it has to be taken on faith [informed by reason and evidence] that God is uncreated and is different in this respect than they are. Although logic and reason tells us that something/someone has always had to have existed.) Satan then sought to exalt himself above God, and God apparently allowed Satan to present his case to all the angels (probably not "publicly", but however angels in Heaven might go around sneakily promoting some "cause"). When the choices had been made, God apparently said something like, "Okay, that's it. Now, away with Satan and his cronies."

Humans have their characters "set" at death (for Christians, this would apparently be when they "die" to their selves, and repent and trust in Jesus as their Savior; though if salvation can be lost, Christians would be no different than others in when their characters were "set") - after this, their characters will never change. Those who die in unrepentance will never experience or choose repentance throughout eternity. Those who die in repentance will never reject their repentance.

For those who die in repentance (trusting in Jesus as their Savior - Christians), God will do away with their sinful nature, and their characters will be like the angels in Heaven who never sinned - technically able to choose to sin, but never doing so because of their character. For those who die in unrepentance (the lost), though they will be technically able to choose to repent, they will never choose to do so, because of their character of rebellion and pride and/or bitterness/hate - they may experience sorrow and regret, as evidenced in the story of the rich man and Lazarus, but they will not in their hearts repent of their sins and acknowledge Jesus as their Savior. For eternity.

In Christ,

Douglas

[ November 01, 2002: Message edited by: Douglas J. Bender ]</p>

Douglas J. Bender

babelfish,

Personally, yes. I keep hearing this voice singing a ditty, and it goes like this, "Save big money at Menard's!" I can't stand it - it's driving me crazy. I'll be minding my own business, and I'll see some tool or some landscaping, or maybe a deck or a garage, and that voice will start right up. Can you help me?


In Christ,

Douglas

Douglas J. Bender

Puck,


Thanks for filling them in for me. I'm not glued to the computer, and especially not to Infidels, so unless someone makes the effort to be sure I see a thread or post, I very well might miss it.

In Christ,

Douglas