Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Secular Pinoy · 08-08-2003, 09:04 AM

In a reply to a question concerning his agnosticism on HJ, Carrier had provided a summary as to why the "moderate historicism" position (a middleway between Traditionalist HJ and radical JM) is as much a contender as the ahistoricist/JM position, even if we accept "[a]lmost every element of the Doherty-MacDonald thesis".

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even if someone comes along with a "best case" theory matched point-by-point with Doherty and his theory still comes out better on all criteria...even then...how much better? If only a little, that isn't enough. That would be enough only to say that "probably there was no Jesus," not "certainly there was no Jesus." For that the win would have to be by a large margin--which I can't see ever happening without new and crucial evidence turning up.

MortalWombat · 08-08-2003, 11:14 AM

I actually tend to agree with much of what Carrier says in his reply. I see both the merits of the mythicist position as well as the realization that there very well could be a historic persona that got incorporated into the Christ-myth. In the end, the answer to the question "did Jesus exist?" depends on what "Jesus" one is talking about.

Bernard Muller · 08-09-2003, 12:03 PM

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In the end, the answer to the question "did Jesus exist?" depends on what "Jesus" one is talking about.

I fully agree with that. Define what you mean by "historical Jesus", then answer yes or no. Let's not play with a word which can have many meanings (many I do not like, such as 'historic' or 'known through history' for "historical". That why I put that minimalist definition towards the beginning of my intro page:
"my definition for 'historical' in "historical Jesus" is 'having lived in the past', based on the Collins English Dictionary (Canadian Edition), "belonging to past", and with 'Jesus' being the name of the man credited to have started Christianity."
Best regards, Bernard

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08-08-2003, 11:14 AM	#2
MortalWombat Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: St Louis area Posts: 3,458	I actually tend to agree with much of what Carrier says in his reply. I see both the merits of the mythicist position as well as the realization that there very well could be a historic persona that got incorporated into the Christ-myth. In the end, the answer to the question "did Jesus exist?" depends on what "Jesus" one is talking about.

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