Rushianbeing

My best friend, whom I've known for about 23 years now, is becoming a fundified Southern Baptist. I was hoping that she was still somewhat rational in her beliefs, but I honestly don't discuss this subject too much with her because I'm afraid of what I might hear. I did get into it with her a little last night on the phone, however, without really meaning to, and my fears began to be confirmed. She was telling me that a young man at her church had asked her to start coming to his house once a week to help him study his bible. I made it a point to respond positively and told her that this man must think rather highly of her and trust her to be a good friend, but I did add that I was sure she could help him sort out the nonsensical and violent stuff in the bible to find the good stuff that he may find supportive. (So I guess I asked for it.) She got immediately defensive and responded with "There is no bad stuff in the bible". I asked what about all the violence, and she quickly responded "There is no violence in the bible". WHAT??? Has she READ this book??? This woman is very intelligent, so I struggled to try to figure out why she was telling me such a patent falsehood, and gave her the benefit of the doubt, that MAYBE she was just talking about the NT (I know there's plenty of violence in the NT too, but I know a lot of Christians claim that Jesus came to erase all the bullshit in the OT, so I wanted to see if this is what she meant). So I said "Well, there's a lot of violence in the OT, anyway", and she said "No, I disagree with that". THEN she backpedaled a little and said that God hadn't condoned any of the violence in the OT. I told her that it was my understanding that the Christian god had not only condoned but ordered or carried out himself much of the violence in the OT, and she said once again that she "disagreed" with this. At this point I steered the conversation in another direction.

When my husband came home I ran this past him, and he was floored. He (unlike me) was raised a Christian, Southern Baptist just like my friend in fact, and he said that there were a LOT of Christians who knew nothing about the Bible and that my friend must be one of them. Then he rattled off Sodom and Gomorrah, god killing Lot's wife by turning her into a pillar of salt, god sending the angel of death to kill all the firstborn in Egypt, and the biggie, god KILLING EVERY LAST LIVING HUMAN BEING ON EARTH except for Noah during the flood.

So HOW can my friend tell me that there is no god-sanctioned violence in the bible??? I just don't understand!!
Do you all have any more examples of violent passages that are your "favorites"? I know there are tons. Just curious. I guess I've started this debate with my friend, and I need support from those more in the know than me. I'm so sad that this has happened to her....

Rushian

Biff the unclean

You might try the Skeptic Annotated Bible site
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/index.html
They have sections for injustice, absurdities, cruelity, intolerance...just about everything a Southern Baptist will claim isn't in the bible, or is but doesn't really mean what says

braces_for_impact

Genesis:
38:7
And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the LORD; and the LORD slew him.

I like that one, nice and direct.

Exodus:
13:2
Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine.

A clear command to the Israelites to commemorate killing all the first born of egypt.

Check out the first 9 chapters of Leviticus, which pretty much sums up how to mangle and burn an animal for the "sweet savor" is pleasing to the lord.

Ah hell, there aren't many chapters without violence, injustice and cruelty.

Roland98

This page from landover baptist has some goodies. Great thing is, if she doesn't know about landover baptist, you could send the url to her as a real site and see what she thinks. Or you can just look up the verses they site. Either way, if she's denying there's violence in the Bible, she hasn't read it, or she has a screw loose.

Zora

Unfortunately, once one of these Christian Cult Sects get ahold of a person, they can no longer read the Bible critically themselves.
She will undoubtedly tell you that the passage was "mistranslated" or it refers to another "God" but accidentally got included by the evil Catholics or that we just don't know how to "read" the Bible. Kill doesn't really mean kill in the literal sense. It means to cleans the spirit, thereby killing the evil in the hearts of men..allegory for everything that has been used as a reason to justify unbelief; literal truth when there are points upon which non-theists agree with them. And, of course, there is always Satan out there trying to trick people into not really knowing how God is...so the Bible is a big test or something. You have to admire how ingenious the system is (or infamous, either one.)

I have just ended a "friendship" with a theist who was constantly invoking the "Heavenly Father" for everything from getting a new car to being able to fart. She was constantly going to "pray for me"....meaning I'm inferior, but she hopes I will get better. Its a complicated thing, but I have finally realized I cannot be close friends with someone who is so involved with religion. I can't have meaningful discussions about things that are important to me with such a person. I'm not really a "small talk" type person, so I have little to say to her anymore. Good luck with your friend.

Rushianbeing

Zora, I hear ya loud and clear. (and the "being able to fart" made me roll on the floor laughing!!) My friend is probably the most intelligent, compassionate, wonderful person I know. She has been with me practically my whole life and has helped me out of COUNTLESS emotional jams, she has remained my friend even after I moved thousands of miles away and back again...but for the last couple of years, we have less and less to say to each other. Our conversations are very one-sided-I find myself talking about all MY life happenings to her, yet she tells me NOTHING of what's going on with her-not even when I directly ask her. I suspect it's because she's becoming more and more fundified, but she is still afraid to tell me straight-up that she thinks I'm of the devil and going to hell if I don't change my ways. I think she's working up to it, though. And last night, as soon as I made the remark about the violence in her particular religious tome, her tone changed and she sounded anxious and defensive. She's never like that. She started talking about how she shouldn't have to be ashamed for what she believes, and I never told her that I thought she should have to be ashamed. I am just genuinely sad that she is undergoing this transformation; it makes me sad that such an intelligent, quick-witted woman is now able and willing to ignore things like genocide. I'm just genuinely curious about how she's rationalizing her delusional views about the bible, and your post clued me in on some of the flawed "thinking" that fundamentalists are taught.
I really miss her; I hope this passes...but I doubt it will.

Jack the Bodiless

You could suggest reading Numbers 31. Moses commands the murder of kids and the taking of virgins as war booty. Then they sacrifice 32 captured virgins to God (along with the usual stuff: animals and suchlike).

I also lost my formerly-best friend to evangelical Christianity, a long time ago. Not a literalist denomination, though: I think he was quite aware of the nastiness in the "non-inspired parts".