Magus55

No, of course its not ok to murder anyone. But since we live in a sick world with irresponsible, sadistic people, where this kinda stuff happens daily, there is comfort in knowing the children, who sadly had to suffer at all, suffered only briefly compared to the time they will be in Heaven.

Yes it is extremely sad what happened, but in your world, those kids had to suffer torture and then get buried in the ground ceasing to exist. To Christians, they unfortunately suffered but will never be sad or feel pain again for the rest of eternity and can have fun and play again just like they used to. Its the end of their existence to Atheists, its not to Christians.

I never said them suffering and being killed was a good thing, but to us - it was only an eye blink of pain compared to eternity of happiness. To you, it was days of torture and agony compared to eternity in dirt never to experience happiness again.

orac

"Little single thing"?

"Dumb people"?

Do you have the faintest idea what you're saying?

Have you ever spent as much as 3 seconds considering what an awful thing was done to that girl?

If so, how can you act like nothing important happened?


Still, there's one good thing about your post - it shows exactly how you feel about rape torture and murder of little children. People need to know how christians feel about these things, or they might start to think that decent human beings can be christian.

Let's state it again, for those who missed it:
Magus55 thinks that the rape torture and murder of a little girl is a "little thing" done by "dumb people" and that God shouldn't be expected to stop it. After all, she might go to heaven and that'll be a great comfort to her parents.

Also, he doesn't understand why people don't think this is evidence of God's greatness.


Here's another thing that really gets me: apparantly, this crime is so horrifying to atheists because we don't have the comfort of heaven. Apparantly we should believe, because that'll relieve the horror of that crime.

"an eyeblink of pain" ???

What sort of human being can even think in such terms?

How can any decent person not be absolutely horrified by this?

If this is the christian belief, then I never want any part of it.

Magus55, you should be proud of yourself - no atheist can argue against christianity like you can.

Magus55

Stop putting words in my mouth. Of course i don't support rape and torture.

To her and her family and friends it was a big thing. In the scheme of the world, its a daily occurance which is what i meant by little. I didn't mean by little it was no big deal and ah so what. While that was happening to that girl, a thousand children starved to death, hundreds of people were murdered and raped, 1000s of people died from cancer.

Yes it is a sick world, and humans made it that way. But at least my belief is that that little girl went to Heaven and her pain and suffering didn't just end by her being put in the dirt. That is depressing and pessimistic at best.

Why do think God's judgement in Revelation is so severe? Look at the world around you that humans made the way it is. Most people can't even contemplate the evil and sin that exists in this world. Its a massive infestation of pain and suffering and its all because of humans ( in the atheistic view and theistic view, afterall - according to atheists God doesn't exist, so the blame falls on humans. According to theists, humans sin and use their free will for evil. Either way, its humans faults.) God's final judgement on the Earth will be completely just compared to how sick and evil this world has gotten.

I'm a complete pacifist. Its very sad how many bad things happen, but i don't go around blaming it on a God i don't even believe in. Humans have to take responsbility for what the world has become. Which is the main reason why God doesn't stop everything.

Jesus Christ endured arguably the most torturous, sadistic method of execution in human history, yet alot of you don't even believe he existed (which is a historical fact it did). Now if Jesus really is God like Christians believe, he was a perfect, innocent person who endured that for YOU, yet you insult him and call him a monster. And you call me sick? Thats even more disgusting.

I don't support any of that so don't even accuse me. You do not know me whatsoever, iv'e never even hit anyone in a fight let alone condoned rape and torture. But i'm not gonna listen to you blasphemy and blame your own races actions on the one person who put up with the pain just to save your ungrateful arse, when he absolutely had no reason to do it. You can deny God all you want, but in the atheistic world, we are to blame. So leave God out of it.

ju'iblex

oh dear god... you know, im about as pessimistic as they come, i have very little love for the whole of humanity, and i honestly dont have much compassion. You may or may not have noticed this about me. But, to describe the drowning of two young children, who at that age could not be at all accountable for their actions, to describe that as "a minor setback" is beyond even my level of apathy. I'm the last one to hand out judgements at the drop of a hat, and even less likely to make one as crude as this, but that, that has to be one of the sickest most demented things i have ever heard. If religion will blind you to any tragic event, if it is your little protection blanket for mortality and all things 'bad', then i am glad as fuck i have never been religious. I dont need those kinds of delusions.

my dog earl

Where was God when those two she-bears ripped apart those children for calling one of His servants "baldy"?
What a crock!!!!!!

Magus55

I never said it was good, it was terrible and tragic. And by minor set back i DID NOT mean, ah who cares, they are just 2 little kids , and yes it was probably a poor choice of words. I'm tired and didn't type it how i meant it. I don't devalue human life at all, i just value that there is a future beyond the physical life. I meant, in the Christian world, as tragic as that accident was - it wasn't the end for them. Where as to you, they drowned and their only reward is a coffin six feet under. 1000s and 1000s of people die daily, yet they all just get dirt thrown on top of them according to you. That is sick and depressing to have no hope for the fate of the innocents that die other than wormfood.
The difference for atheists is your earthly life is all you have to cling to, Christians have God to cling to. Our life on earth is a trillionth of a second compared to our time with God. Physical life is very important, but the spiritual life is more important.

my dog earl

When I approached a christian friend as to the cruelty in 2Kings :23-24 he told me he had more respect for Him for it being done and that the kids were in a "better" place. God is love?Whats wrong with you people?

ju'iblex

hon, it doesnt matter what you can now justify your words to be after being called out on them, but it said a shitload about you when you wrote them, more than you can imagine. It demonstrated a rather common, yet disgusting thing about the majority of religious beliefs in general. And would you look at this, just when i thought i might have read too much into it, you dismiss the events once again "who cares", "just two little kids". That kind of attitude amazes me. It shows no love, no compassion, just this wave of the hand and dismissal of "oh its just 2 little boys drowning, nothing i cant deal with, i have a book". Thats the most wonderful thing i've found about atheists, they tend to demonstrate far more compassion for everyone around them that the mindless bigotry that is disguised as "Xian tough love". The irony never fails to sadden yet amuse me.

and it still doesnt strike you that religions were concocted for this reason as well, to give people some relief from grief rather than having to come to terms with the more likely alternative that they, just like every other living organism are dead? Just like that ant you stepped on the other day, or the dog you ran over, you are made of just chemicals and their reactions. But they dont get a heaven, funny that.
well, i hope some of them are cremated actually, but yes, thats what i imagine happens.
how is that sick? please, i would love to hear it. sad perhaps, but losing someone close is a sad event, Xian or not, but sick?

you dont even know for certain you have a spirit, come on, you got it from some rotting velum found in a bunch of caves written by some guys with penchants for cutting skin off penises. good grief.

orac

Let me quote your words, then.

You're the one who called it an "eyeblink" of pain compared to an eternity of happiness. Is that me putting words into your mouth? You wrote those words, and you can't forget about them now.

Frankly, calling it an eyeblink of pain implies that it is a very small thing, of no significant consequence. You did not write "this was an absolutely terrible and evil thing." You certainly didn't demonstrate any empathy for the pain that little girl suffered before she was killed.

Fine. You consider that a comforting thought. I simply find it completely unacceptable. (Why do you consider this to be the same as saying you approved of the original crime?)

Don't try to deny that you're comforted by belief in heaven. Don't try to deny that this is supposed to ease the pain.

Now, prove that heaven exists, and I'll be comforted too.

"But it's comforting! It is! it is! Please be comforted and reassured that it's all for the best!" does not qualify as proof of anything. "It would be sad if the world wasn't full of bright yellow fluffy bunnies" is not proof that the world is full of bright yellow fluffy bunnies.

I simply do not care what you think God's mysterious plan is. I'm quite happy to state that if allowing this sort of cruel murder is the price, then his plan is not worth it.

Btw, the criminals are responsible for the pain and suffering. If you had been present, would you have said "someone else is doing it, so if I walk away it's not my fault and I've done nothing wrong" ? I expect you to say "yes, of course" based on your assertion that God has no responsibility, despite the fact that he is infinitely more powerful than any human could even dream of becoming.

On the off chance that you say "no, of course I would help an innocent child" could you explain why God felt the need to leave her to suffer, even after it was established beyond all doubt that the people responsible were evil?

If your God choses not to protect children from rapists and murderers, then he is as evil as a person who, given the ability to do so, does not.

If you don't like that, explain to me again why it is necessary for children to suffer like that.

If it helps, your God is a figment of your imagination, and thus did not exist in order to save anyone. However, it's important for people to know just what sort of deity you worship, so they can decide if they want to join in or not. Your statements on why God left that girl to be raped and murdered are clear statements on what you believe.

Many people are not impressed.


Too right that's arguable. Christians (and everyone else, really) have come up with plenty of ways to torture people to death. Being nailed to a tree is nasty, but even children have endured far worse than that.

You are simply wrong to say that Jesus suffered more when he was killed than anyone else ever has.

Note: I didn't need to say "Jesus doesn't exist" to show that you were wrong. Did you see that one coming?


You misspelled "One death is a tragedy. A million deaths is a statistic."

You clearly stated that your god would not "stop every little single thing dumb people do". (your words, again.)

I still don't understand how anyone can think such a thing. Unless they believe that because God is real, it doesn't really matter at all.

Anyone who is not horrified by such a crime is not a decent human being. Anyone who can dismiss it as "a daily occurance" is not a moral person.

I stand by what I said: you have explained clearly why religion is wrong.

MrDarwin

Magus, I see you skirted both of the major issues I raised, so let me ask my questions a little more directly, and a little more bluntly:

1. Do you think God answered Lesley Ann's prayer?

2. Do you think that if Lesley Ann came to disbelieve in God when she died (because no help came when she asked for it), she is now damned to suffer eternally?