Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Bree · 04-04-2003, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by wildernesse
Anyway, this is not about talking to other people, but more of a spiritual language between a person's spirit and God.

So conceivably everyone should then be speaking the same language - or does everyone have their own language between their souls and God?

Please don't think I'm picking on you - I'm just trying to reason this out.

Jinto · 04-04-2003, 09:59 PM

Speaking of tounges, I wonder if anyone here has ever tried making a recording of it and then taking it to different people who claimed to be able to interpret tounges to see if they get the same translation?

Clara Listensprechen · 04-04-2003, 10:42 PM

I've got just one word to respond to all of this with...

Marjoe.

This is the name of a reputed child dear to God who performed all sorts of wondrous works...only to reveal, in his older days, how he and the works were all set up to be staged.

I have no doubt that the performers firmly believe that their act is the real deal, as it's a gut-level feeling of certainty about whatever it is that they gut-level feel certain about. But this points to my main complaint about most religious people I encounter: they use their guts, not their brains, to govern their lives, and it's their guts that they're calling "God".

I have the same 'tude about people who claim to talk to God and get answered. I don't trust anyone who talks to voices in their heads. These people belong not in church but in an assylum.

mike_decock · 04-04-2003, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jinto
Speaking of tounges, I wonder if anyone here has ever tried making a recording of it and then taking it to different people who claimed to be able to interpret tounges to see if they get the same translation?

The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind by Julian Jaynes has a chapter devoted to Glossolalia (Speaking in Tongues). He describes that exact experiment and all the interpretations were different.

"Shouldaboughtahonda Buttiboughtahyundai"

.

-Mike...

Clara Listensprechen · 04-04-2003, 11:03 PM

Oo Ee Oo Ah Ah
Ting Tang WallaWalla Bing Bang

nermal · 04-05-2003, 02:12 AM

Mecka Lecka Hai Mecka Heini Ho?

Ed

Godot · 04-05-2003, 02:27 AM

fuzzywuzzywasabear fuzzywuzzyhadnohair fuzzywuzzywasn'tveryfuzzy washe?

KidFury · 04-05-2003, 05:15 AM

Wow, thanks for the replies guys I am going to try to clear up my first statement and refocus this thread a little bit.

My goal wasn't so much to define what speaking in tongues was but rather the effect of such a doctrine on the mind of someone who thinks of himself as a worthless sinner.

Having been raised as a catholic, I had never heard of this speaking in tongues nonsense other than the story of the pentecost. However, I used to feel really bad when at communion I didn't feel anything as I put the wafer in my mouth and knelt down. I would peek around and see my whole family with their eyes closed in rapture but I just felt nothing. I thought that meant I was a worthless worthless fool. I of course faked he whole thing in order to fit in but inside I was dying of guilt and shame. Can you imagine if I had to get up and pretend to speak in some gobbledigook language?

Now, I listen to various internet radio shows both Theist and Atheist. I was listening to a debate between Jason GAstrich anda Jehovah`s witness apologist and they both claimed to have the gift of tongues!. That is when the idea for this thread came to me.

lunachick · 04-05-2003, 05:20 AM

From the Book of Lunitiques, Ch. 3, Vs. 1:

Quote:

Ars shau nee broug um-peety,
Ars shau nee brig um-dah.
Shree neapah, oll mook fydna.
Shree bolly, nochtel fwa.

Imphoot an geenu zadek,
imphoot an geenu bol.
Mwan dichtal youpi dillah,
mwan tzoupee, droen-bress twa.

Gfee un deppah! Undoog lah!
Hoom maudik allacht noss...

Tzroon-drah, Ha!

Of course, scholars can't seem to agree on the precise message inherent in this verse, but they do agree that it is probably the voice of the holy spirit speaking absolute nonsense through an unbeliever in an effort to convert that heathen to accept the love of Christ. That, or it's the devil teaching the heathen wicked spells. I say burn her, just to be sure.

Treacle Worshipper · 04-05-2003, 11:09 AM

KidFury,
I should imagine that if one were brought up thinking one had to speak in tongues to be saved, it would have a very bad effect if one couldn't do it.

I knew a Pentacostal girl (a teen convert) who had been told that you had to speak in tongues to be saved, and if you were truly saved then god would give you the gift. I found this quite offensive, as I had been brought up in a very quiet church where nothing like that went on. She didn't know how to reply when I asked her if she meant that I & and my entire church were off to hell

I started speaking in tongues after joining a charismatic church at uni, and I still can if I want to

The freakiest part about all that for me was discovering that what I was saying was extremely close to Quenya (one of the Elvish languages invented by Tolkien).

I believe there is some evidence that those who speak intelligible tongues are dragging it from their unconscious mind, using languages that they have been exposed to but couldn't consciously speak.

Info on glossolalia from the Sceptic's Dictionary is here

TW

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04-04-2003, 09:59 PM	#12
Jinto Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: SLC, UT Posts: 957	Speaking of tounges, I wonder if anyone here has ever tried making a recording of it and then taking it to different people who claimed to be able to interpret tounges to see if they get the same translation?

04-04-2003, 10:42 PM	#13
Clara Listensprechen Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Enid OK Posts: 91	I've got just one word to respond to all of this with... Marjoe. This is the name of a reputed child dear to God who performed all sorts of wondrous works...only to reveal, in his older days, how he and the works were all set up to be staged. I have no doubt that the performers firmly believe that their act is the real deal, as it's a gut-level feeling of certainty about whatever it is that they gut-level feel certain about. But this points to my main complaint about most religious people I encounter: they use their guts, not their brains, to govern their lives, and it's their guts that they're calling "God". I have the same 'tude about people who claim to talk to God and get answered. I don't trust anyone who talks to voices in their heads. These people belong not in church but in an assylum.

04-04-2003, 11:03 PM	#15
Clara Listensprechen Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Enid OK Posts: 91	Oo Ee Oo Ah Ah Ting Tang WallaWalla Bing Bang

04-05-2003, 02:12 AM	#16
nermal Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,969	Mecka Lecka Hai Mecka Heini Ho? Ed

04-05-2003, 02:27 AM	#17
Godot Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Calgary Posts: 1,335	fuzzywuzzywasabear fuzzywuzzyhadnohair fuzzywuzzywasn'tveryfuzzy washe?

04-05-2003, 05:15 AM	#18
KidFury Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Montreal Posts: 372	Wow, thanks for the replies guys I am going to try to clear up my first statement and refocus this thread a little bit. My goal wasn't so much to define what speaking in tongues was but rather the effect of such a doctrine on the mind of someone who thinks of himself as a worthless sinner. Having been raised as a catholic, I had never heard of this speaking in tongues nonsense other than the story of the pentecost. However, I used to feel really bad when at communion I didn't feel anything as I put the wafer in my mouth and knelt down. I would peek around and see my whole family with their eyes closed in rapture but I just felt nothing. I thought that meant I was a worthless worthless fool. I of course faked he whole thing in order to fit in but inside I was dying of guilt and shame. Can you imagine if I had to get up and pretend to speak in some gobbledigook language? Now, I listen to various internet radio shows both Theist and Atheist. I was listening to a debate between Jason GAstrich anda Jehovah`s witness apologist and they both claimed to have the gift of tongues!. That is when the idea for this thread came to me.

04-05-2003, 11:09 AM	#20
Treacle Worshipper Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 931	KidFury, I should imagine that if one were brought up thinking one had to speak in tongues to be saved, it would have a very bad effect if one couldn't do it. I knew a Pentacostal girl (a teen convert) who had been told that you had to speak in tongues to be saved, and if you were truly saved then god would give you the gift. I found this quite offensive, as I had been brought up in a very quiet church where nothing like that went on. She didn't know how to reply when I asked her if she meant that I & and my entire church were off to hell I started speaking in tongues after joining a charismatic church at uni, and I still can if I want to The freakiest part about all that for me was discovering that what I was saying was extremely close to Quenya (one of the Elvish languages invented by Tolkien). I believe there is some evidence that those who speak intelligible tongues are dragging it from their unconscious mind, using languages that they have been exposed to but couldn't consciously speak. Info on glossolalia from the Sceptic's Dictionary is here TW

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