jpbrooks

But the "ego" must still there in some form. Otherwise, what provides the "impulse"? If a completely different part of the "self" can function (on a "higher" level) in the same manner as does the "ego", then how do we know that the "ego" is really the source of any "impulses"?

So, does this include the "western" form of meditation where clearing the "mind" of its content completely is not part of the practice? And why couldn't a person learn to contact his or her "higher self" realms without first having to quiet the "chatter" in the "mind"? It seems to me that the constant practice of "quieting one's mind" simply reinforces the necessity of doing it.
Wow! If the "ego" has the "wisdom" to be able to do all of that, why does it ever need to be subjugated?

And progress in understanding the mechanics of the system is a part of progress in understanding the system as a whole.

But "Holism" would seem to suggest that some "imprint" of our having been in a "3D" environment remains in that environment since all things are "interconnected".

But that is not what is usually meant when the term "muscle memory" is used. The term is usually associated with skill in performing some movement or activity, and changes in DNA, while they may produce changes in a muscle's tissue that may affect the muscle's ability to perform its function when it is stimulated to move, are not what directly causes movement to occur in the muscle. Furthermore, it is difficult to understand how changes produced in DNA could be called "memory" outside the context of a universe "overseen" by some kind of "universal" "super-mind" or "intelligent" organizing principle, whose existence would have to be supported on independent grounds. And even if the existence of such a "super-mind" can be demonstrated, it would still remain to be established that we have, in principle, access to everything that this "super-mind" knows.

This points to the need for a more precise definition of "thinking". How do we know that "thinking" is not just a complex form of "processing"? Computers of various types can already perform operations on data that we normally associate with "thinking".

But where, on this definition, does "the body" end and the rest of the universe begin?

I have to run.

jpbrooks

Sorry for the late post. I'm having hardware difficulties.


But, without any information about the existence and function of anything resembling a "soul" available to anyone's conscious mind, how could such a "part" of ourselves have been "discovered" in the first place? If it's just a stipulation, then that would explain its "discovery". But then how could that alleged "discovery" be confirmed to be a genuine part of our personalities, and not, for example, some anomaly of the nervous system, if we can never gain any conscious awareness of it?

Even granting that the state of being "fully aware" is possible in principle, that still would not mean that it would be possible in practice.

So this means that what we have been calling the "ego" is simply a "perspective" that our ("unenlightened") "true identity" (which is the actual "center" of our conscious experiences) finds itself limited to taking.

... But at a different level of interpretation from that of a "plain text" reading. I'm not saying that it is wrong to find analogies between the subjects and events of biblical passages and psychological concepts. It's just not "standard" practice for most people who read the bible.

I think I understand your use of the term "blank slate" in this context. The "mind" of a newborn infant is far from being completely "blank". So, the "pride of life" may be a result of inherited behavior traits.

I understand (I think).

malai5

Dear jpbrooks.

Sorry about the delay.

1) The ego, in ''little'' self form generates the primal survival responses that are necessary for a 3D physical. It is drive that is at the coal face, as it were and operates as well to give you your basic lessons. Once you have learned to ''survive'', it is the job of the higher self to gradually take over, the coming of ''wisdom'' and the passing of egocentric youth. The higher self's ''impulse'', is more a ''knowing'' response, some call it maturity. The brash days of youth are replaced by the calm ''knowing'' of the mature years.
The very ''little'' ego selfish self is replaced by the more selfless bigger perspective bigger/higher self way.

2) The mind does not have to be completely ''stilled'' to contact your higher self. The intent to do so is the important ingredient and the more you practise this connection, the easier it gets. One gets to know the diference between when one is in that ''space'' or not. It is a bit like having 2 processes operating in the one mind.

3) What you must realise, is the scale we are looking at here. What is available to you when you move into the cognitive higher self area makes the 3D possibilities pale into insignificence. It makes the 3D world look shallow and thin, for it is indeed, the universal possibilities that you are then faced with.

4) Yes, progress is progress in the understanding of 3D physicality, but as you are a universal entity, you need not limit yourself to that. There is far more to understand that will give you a sense of perspective that will allow the perceiving of the 3D world with a more universal view. The emphasis would be to combine the physical and the metaphysical. to understand the truly wholistic nature of the 3D world and the human entity.

5) The ''imprint'' is to do with collective memory of 3D lives and other dimensional lives. Our complete history.

6) The metaphore of ''muscle memory'', was used because if you have achieved a skill in a previous life, it is remembered in this life, just as a muscle remembers a task, you would, if it was needed, be able to be more proficient in the same skill because you had already learned it.
In principal, you can access everything in the universal mind, but as the process is ordered by hierarchy, which is in accord to evolution, you can only access what you need, for your status.
What independant grounds could one possibily find to prove something which would be itself a part of what you are trying to prove. Catch 22.
That is what the universe calls the ''Isness''.

7) There are two types of thinking, the 3D oriented processor type of thinking where 3D learned information is manipulated to find solutions and come up with 3D concepts, you know, your day to day stuff, subjective thought. The other type is the cognitive/objective, intuitive ''thought'' which overlays the subjective 3D thought. This is the inspirational, thought without a '' thread. This type of thought is not processed in a subjective fashion but instead just ''arrives''. To deliniate between the two is not difficult, if you know that indeed the two forms exist. Otherwise you think it is all one.

8) The body, being a creation, a hologram of energy in a hologramatic world, is totally connected with the true self, the universal entity, while the ''body'' is needed for a particular ''life''. When the vehicle is no longer needed, it is cut adrift and melds back into the fabric of the hologram. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

Cheers.

Malai5.

Amos

But, without any information about the existence and function of anything resembling a "soul" available to anyone's conscious mind, how could such a "part" of ourselves have been "discovered" in the first place? If it's just a stipulation, then that would explain its "discovery". But then how could that alleged "discovery" be confirmed to be a genuine part of our personalities, and not, for example, some anomaly of the nervous system, if we can never gain any conscious awareness of it?
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(Amos) That is my reason for stating that the soul is "that part of us that we do not know." It is this same unknown soul identity that knocked Saul down from his high horse, and was also the cause of Joseph to return to his place of birth to give an account of himself. This give "an account" was not a census with regard to headcount but was an account with regard to his state of mind. In other words it was a metaphysical journey.
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Only for as long as we are not fully aware. You will admid that some people are more aware then others and if this is possible the slippery slope will lead us to conclude that "fully aware" must be possible.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Even granting that the state of being "fully aware" is possible in principle, that still would not mean that it would be possible in practice.
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(Amos)Don't ask me but the slippery slope can only exist is the opposites are real.
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We are motivated along the journey of life because our ego is an illusion. Remember the famous "carrot on a stick" metaphor here. In reality our True Idenity (or soul) is in charge of our destiny and we, in our ego consciousness, just think that we are. We do this well and get good at it and while do this we are motivated to make our world a better place to live, ie. we want to be the king of our castle etc.

So you are correct, the ego is needed and is never bad in itself but becomes the only obstacle to be overcome before we can reach enlightenment. After this it must be placed subservient to our intuit mind.

[/B][/QUOTE]

So this means that what we have been calling the "ego" is simply a "perspective" that our ("unenlightened") "true identity" (which is the actual "center" of our conscious experiences) finds itself limited to taking.
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(Amos)No the division is clear because the ego can be crucified and left behind. Bar-abbas was the true identity here set free and Jesus was left stranded with all of his eidetic images removed (apostels had forsaken him), the clothes that make the man had been removed, and his senses were pierced.
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It's there and it's all there. Very clear and without contradictions.

[/B][/QUOTE]

... But at a different level of interpretation from that of a "plain text" reading. I'm not saying that it is wrong to find analogies between the subjects and events of biblical passages and psychological concepts. It's just not "standard" practice for most people who read the bible.
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(Amos) Bible reading should never be encouraged because plain text reading can cause confusion that can easily lead to war. I am in favor of censorship here.
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The formation of our ego awareness is equal to the fall of man and occurs just after the first trimester of pregnancy. According to science this is when "rational activity" first can be observed. Upon this blank slate our Pride of Life is formed.

[/B][/QUOTE]

I think I understand your use of the term "blank slate" in this context. The "mind" of a newborn infant is far from being completely "blank". So, the "pride of life" may be a result of inherited behavior traits.

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(Amos) Correct. We pay for the sins of our fathers and will reap the benefit of their virues. If that was not true we could all get smart and rich by just going to school. Our characters are supported by a "One Thousand Year" history and this is true whether we realize this or not because it is true when we realize this (the Thousand Year Reign is heaven on earth).

malai5

Dear Amos.

Well said, well said.

Cheers.

Malai5.

Amos

Don't you like the transition from shepherds herding sheep at night to the call of the apostels and their recall into the upper room?

According to me the shepherds were eidetic images and you need twelve of these for a divine comedy. The fact that they were out herding sheep at night means that Joseph's life was boring, or without hope, or like a wasteland, or his conscious mind (little self) had been exhausted, etc.

The significance here is that "the house must be empty" (or many more will return), and the house here is the conscious mind (your little self) . . . to make this a "shock" or "crisis moment" because only trauma can bring about the change (awakening) that we are looking for.

After the journey to Bethlehem where enlightenment took place the forsaken shepherds were recalled into action now to serve as apostles to work out the salvation of Joseph the carpenter who's sin and sin nature became the cross of Joseph now called Jesus.

These same apostels later departed from Jesus in preparation for crucifixion of the ego so they could be recalled into the upper room and there be placed subservient to the subconscious mind (so reason would prevail in heaven upon earth).

I once read that the secret here is to let go off all we have and all we are "in exchange of the pearl of great worth" but with the option to keep it in the end. Yes, it is kind of like tricking you subconscious mind into thinking that you are at the end of your rope while in fact you still have one ace up your sleeve. This ace is the Baptism candle of Catholicism that we must recognize as the white candle in our Advent wreath. Hence Catholic water and any fire.

malai5

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Amos
[B]Don't you like the transition from shepherds herding sheep at night to the call of the apostels and their recall into the upper room?

Malai5)
The ''upper room'', we call ''upstairs'' and the metaphore was not lost on us. The problem was, that they had difficulty in believing, climbing over their 3D limitations.

Amos)
According to me the shepherds were eidetic images and you need twelve of these for a divine comedy. The fact that they were out herding sheep at night means that Joseph's life was boring, or without hope, or like a wasteland, or his conscious mind (little self) had been exhausted, etc.

Malai5)
According to our information, Josephs life was anything from ''boring''. You see, we have been told a quite different story of the life of Jesus and his family. Joseph was one of the few who knew what Jesus was in contact with, as he was himself. A big surprise to both of them. Joseph, with this knowledge was able to help Jesus through some of his problems he had, in coming to terms with what he was meant to be and who was working through him. If Joseph was ''exhausted'', it was because his task was a difficult one.

Amos)
The significance here is that "the house must be empty" (or many more will return), and the house here is the conscious mind (your little self) . . . to make this a "shock" or "crisis moment" because only trauma can bring about the change (awakening) that we are looking for.

Malai5)
The ''house'', is often a metaphore for the self. In this case, the ''little'' self. If the ''little'' self mind is not merged into the ''bigger self''/higher self way, there can be no true connection with the universal mind, G.O.D. The 3D ''little'' self, if not reigned in, will always revert to like, seek comfort in old ways, and never grow. Trauma, puts one's life into question and gives the ''Second Chance''.

Amos)
After the journey to Bethlehem where enlightenment took place the forsaken shepherds were recalled into action now to serve as apostles to work out the salvation of Joseph the carpenter who's sin and sin nature became the cross of Joseph now called Jesus.

Malai5)
Sin and the idea of sin, is a falacy. It is the judgement of humans that have created this concept. Jesus came to tell the human race they were wrong. ''Judge ye not lest ye be judged''. To place the concept of ''sin'' is to place a judgement, not the way of Jesus, not the way of G.O.D., but the way of humankind.
It is the ''little'' self, the ''childish'' 3D way of humans that needed to be brought to a greater understanding of what they were doing to themselves. ''Suffer the little children to come unto me''.

Amos)
These same apostels later departed from Jesus in preparation for crucifixion of the ego so they could be recalled into the upper room and there be placed subservient to the subconscious mind (so reason would prevail in heaven upon earth).

Malai5)
It's interesting that you see the Apostles being made subservient to the subconscious mind and the ''crucifixion'' as being a metaphore for this. If this was really so, why then did Paul/Saul, create a church, along the hierarchial lines of the Roman Empire. He fell back to what he knew, back to ''little'' self ways, only this time he had a ''noble'' justification. What a betrayer of the original message of Jesus he turned out to be and the world has been stuck with it since.
Jesus did not come to this earth to build a church, he came to show another way to live, another way to see, another way to be. It was a personal message, not a collective one and they all got it wrong.

Amos)
I once read that the secret here is to let go off all we have and all we are "in exchange of the pearl of great worth" but with the option to keep it in the end. Yes, it is kind of like tricking you subconscious mind into thinking that you are at the end of your rope while in fact you still have one ace up your sleeve. This ace is the Baptism candle of Catholicism that we must recognize as the white candle in our Advent wreath. Hence Catholic water andany fire.

Malai5)
This is what our posted article, ''Letting Go'' is all about, but without the metaphores of the roman church. You give it all up to receive the greatest gift of all, yourself, the you that truly is that pure being, that being that is directly connected to G.O.D., your True Self.

Cheers.

Malai5.

Amos

[B]

Hello malai.

According to me Jesus was the reborn Joseph and the Gospels take place in what we call purgatory. Notice that they begin with the birth of Jesus which was the rebirth of Joseph to whom the Christ identity was added (rebirth is awakening). The Gospels end with the ascension of Jesus into heaven and therefore also end the purgation period of Jesus nee Joseph. So really, the Gospels take place in the mind of one man.

Leave Paul out of for now because he used the example set by Jesus/Joseph to start a new religion. Paul was very clever but because of his religious tone he should not be used to rationalize the Gospels. It is easy to defend Paul but that will be a different story and perhaps not very popular today.

Yes, I agree that Joseph was an ambitious character who came from a devout Jewish family and this is very important because his own Judaism was needed to annihilate this ambition of Joseph the ego builder. The need for religious determination here is two fold, first it must motivate the courageous little self to built a big ego and later to have the inner man aided by religious determination deflate and annihilate the ego. We therefore read that Joseph was a devout and upright man, that he was a man of integrity, and, opposite to this, he was a carpenter and therefore was a big sinner (all things are made in sin according to Aristotle's "stands in the rout").

I conclude that Joseph had twelve shepherds because he called twelve apostles and they were his helpers while he was a courageous sinner. Joseph was later called a wealthy man and secret disciple of Jesus who ''anticipated for the reign of God." Joseph laid Jesus in his own tomb that he had hewn with his own hands as if out of rock. This "tomb hewn out of rock" really is a reflection of the life of Joseph, who also was an ark builder, really, because if you can float your boat through the purgation period you will find that while you were building the ark that carried you, you also carved the tomb needed to put your ego to rest in the end.

"Involutional melancholia" is the proper name for the condition of Joseph. Joseph and Jesus were the same person but here Jesus took charge and 'carried the sin-nature of Joseph' to Calvary. To achieve this he used the same shepherds (his knowledge and qualities) now engaged as apostles to carry the same ego that they once built towards annihilation and subsequent crucifixion. Do you see the "metanoia" (reversal) in this? Notice that Joseph remains in the background during the Gospels because he is the subject of this event. Exhausted here means that he had reached the end of his human ambitions and now saw the futility of his worldly pursuits. It is like a feeling of ‘alienation’ that is caused by the inner man by whom we are determined creatures.

Of course there can be a true connection with the universal mind. When all doubt is removed all faith is removed because faith and doubt cannot be conceived to exist without the other. So in the Gospels, when Thomas the doubter was convinced also Peter, who was the twin of Thomas as faith (both were apostles) was defrocked because without doubt there can be no faith = knowledge frees. After this Thomas exclaimed “My Lord and my God!” to indicate that the particular mind of Lord God had become one with the universal mind of God. You are correct only if spiritual crucifixion does not take place and that is where you see religion to be a handicap towards enlightenment (many more demons will return; see also “final imposter” of Matt. 27:64).

Sin is a human concept used as bait to redeem the prior nature of man. Remember here that a reversal must take place wherein reason must be placed in service of intuition. To achieve this the passive inner man must convict the domineering outer man and the concept sin is just a tool used to accomplish this. For this to work the Laws must be written upon the human heart as if in stone where they serve as an anvil to clash with our actions while we are in pursuit of happiness. While in pursuit of happiness as ego builder we are guided by our faculty of reason and our senses (Joseph was also a sensuous man). Nietzsche has a nice parable on this anvil concept.

Not really. Paul started a new religion that was the cause for the rise of our civilization and the reformation ended this and began the decline of our civilization. This decline is what you say are stuck with now.

Jesus never came but Paul used the metaphor to show us the way. Understand here that the second coming will be no different then the first and so just as the second coming is meant to be a personal event so was the first coming a personal event. We call this the “hypostatic union” as you saw in the “Convergence of the Twain.”

Easier said than done and is never achieved outside the Church in Christendom.

Philosoft

This is no longer philosophy; a GRD perhaps...

malai5

Dear Amos.


Malai5.)

The church would never know if it is achieved or not, for in truth it does not know. It just stands in it's position with no other legitimisation other than it has a history and a bloody one at that.
The 3D church is a construction of man, not of G.O.D.(end)

Cheers.

Malai5.