JohnV

Re: SDA
OK, your knowledge in this matter is based on hearsay.
No, I'm not addressing faith at all. I'm pointing out that we get much of our knowledge through hearsay evidence.

Kharakov

Our knowledge about whether or not we can trust someone comes from whether or not the methods that they claim will help us meet our ends actually do help us meet our ends. Scientists open themselves up to ridicule and defeat every time they put their theories up to the test of their fellow scientists. We see signs of scientific advancement all around us. The evidence of scientific advancement supports the credibility of scientists' use of scientific method.

Maybe one day we will see signs of theological advancement that can give theists the credibility to make claims in favor of theology. In truth, science was basically shams and quackery for 1000s of years, much like theology is now. Science has been distilled into a purer form, eliminating many of the claims that are not supported by reality. If theology does this without using appeal to force (kill all that do not believe as I do), they have a slim chance of making progress.

David M. Payne

I think you've got it now BH

Sadly luv, you missed the point. This behavior is what we need to move away from, which in a broad sense is what "Bob" is all about.

David

zwi

Questions for David M Payne

What is the difference between a strong agnostic and an atheist?

Can a Jew be an atheist

Zwi

David M. Payne

1)A strong agnostic like me can speculate that there could be a God, as I did in <a href="http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=105" target="_blank">The Wailing Pool.</a> An atheist would deny the possible existence of any kind of God. This is of course open to debate, as I consider myself an atheist as far as the Abrahamic God is concerned, but a strong agnostic as far the possibility of some type of God is concerned. As an example, there are billions and billons of stars, and it's preposterous for us to think we are the only life form in the universe. So if there were a race that had figured out space travel and had come here and created us as a biology experiment, would they be Gods to us? Perhaps.

2) I think you have to differentiate between a religious Jew, and a Jew by birth. I doubt that one could follow the tenants of Judaism, the religion, and be an atheist at the same time, unless they had a split personality, and one personality didn't know what the other one was doing. I know a couple of Jews by birth who are atheist, they don't believe in or practice the religion at all. I don't know if that answers your question, but that’s my take on it.

David

hal9000

Hey DP, with the response you have gotten on Bob do you worry about your own personal safety? For example some of the theists out there are pretty crazy as 9/11, Tim McVeigh and the federal building bombing because of Waco and David Koresh, as well as the Maryland snipers showed us. Bob is a pretty tough nut for them to crack as evidenced by their failure to do it here, which could lead some of them to try and hunt you down. After all Salamon Rushdie (?) wrote the Satanic Verses I believe it was and got a fatwa put on his head. You could be viewed as the guy that killed their god in some of their minds, and they are very dangerous. I guess I’m trying to say watch your ass, this story will piss off some very bad people.

David M. Payne

Hal, after my tour in Vietnam I had a real problem with paranoia, as did many vets, but I finally got the help I needed to, if not overcome it, at least not let it control my life. Sure I know that what I write could be used as an excuse by some deranged religious or political nut to try and harm or kill me, such is life. I can't do much to protect myself, that would take resources that I don't have, (money) so I just try to live each day to the fullest. I don't think I have anything to really worry about yet, my work would need much more notice in the media before I really pop up on the terrorist radar, I think. If my work gets me a little notice in the media, then I have to hope that I can also use it to acquire the resources I would need to protect myself before the religious or political nuts hunt me down. Some things are just out of my control. I think 9/11 has shown us all that we are all vulnerable to a terrorist attack, which is why I write what I do. In Nam we put our lives on the line for nothing as it turned out. At least here I am fighting the good fight, and if I get whacked, well I went down knowing I was doing the best I could with what I had to make the world a better place for us all. I do try and watch out for anything that is out of the usual, but I refuse to let paranoia rule my life anymore. Though I do watch the guy with the Idaho plates and the shaved head, that recently moved in across the street, a little more closely than the rest of my neighbors. A little paranoia can be a good thing.

David

David M. Payne

Still waiting for Douglas J. Bender to show me the error of my ways as far as "The Story of Bob" is concerned. Where are you Douglas?

David

Amos

I read the first paragraph and that was enough to tell me that the thing is really an insult to this forum.

David M. Payne

And what "thing" would that be Amos, the heading of this thread, or <a href="http://www.secweb.org/asset.asp?AssetID=236" target="_blank">"The Story of Bob."</a> And how would either one be an insult to this forum? A little clarity is in order from you. I notice that the theists here are quick to condemn "Bob" with unspecified mistakes, a poor understanding of religion etc, but are unable to come up with specifics when asked to do so. So Amos, why don't you show us where the errors are? In other words perhaps you should put up, or shut up. I expected the theist lobby to have a spirited response to "Bob" not this wimpy crap we have seen so far. How disappointing.

David