Vicar Philip

My mistake, apparently, was saying grace a couple of times last week at her request. What the hell, it's a whole five seconds before a meal.

However, her insisting I pray and getting pissed off when I say I don't need to seems to be a whole different ball of wax to me. She said she "thought I was coming around" when I said grace. Ooooh, the evil atheist was coming back to Jesus! Praise god!! Not.

I feel that telling her I'm praying when I'm not is dishonest. Yes, saying grace could also be considered dishonest, but I think in the scope of things it's fairly harmless (unless you happen to say it in the presence of my wife and it gets her hopes up). I reiterated to her that I have NEVER prayed much, even when I claimed to be a god-fearing Christian. Doesn't matter.

Maybe I should follow your lead, bg. I've said lately that I'm more tolerant, it doesn't bother me as much. But I can see this is only the beginning. What's next, going back to church full time, Sunday school, church functions, all that crap? Gag. I don't know.

Vicar Philip

That's a very good point, if she got into an accident I'd never forgive myself. I almost feel like she's using the "last resort" divorce threat to get her way. I guess I will try to ignore it, as difficult as that will be.

Thanks, bg.

beth

Although I prayed openly at dinner with my kids, my husband tripped out when I said Grace with them one night. It caused his hopes to be lifted and started all kinds of crap all over again, but this was when he first found out I was no longer a Christian.




Well I say a safety prayer, which is,"God if you're there, let me know." This prayer seems to satisfy my husband and it isn't something I feel dishonest about. I was a prayer warrior, so seeinbg me pray over everything, including parking spaces, to not praying has been a dramatic thing. I think it is wrong that your wife force you to pray, but maybe you could twist what she says and return it with a question. You know, pull an artful dodger. That's how I get out of conflict. That way, they think they are getting the answers they want.
I'm just saying what is working for us. But it doesn't mean it will for you. I think that your wife is wrong for trying to force her religion on you. I think she should appreciate you being honest. But she might also be hurt to think that you don't love her enough to humble yourself before the non-existent god and make an appeal for her health. She probably thinks that she should matter more to you than your pride.

Proxima Centauri

I'm sorry you are having trouble yet again Vicar Philip, holy sh*t!
You are slowly making more and more concessions. You are going to church on Sundays. You are pretending to pray. Things are getting slowly worse, holy sh*t!
I fear that control friek, your wife will not be satisfied unless you become a fake Christian without self respect or respect from you family, holy sh*t!
Sorry, I think you should not pretend to say grace. You reinforce her pretending to be Christian. Then she is encouraged to cause yet more trouble, holy sh*t!
Do not be underassertive. It could well be best if you stayed away from church for a few weeks till she respects your right to religious freedom more. The divorce threat looks like an empty threat. You can't be certain but if you do not stand up for yourself you will just lose progressively more and more freedom, holy sh*t!
Is your therapist doing anything to discourage your wife from trying to control in these ways? Is your therapist just praising God? holy sh*t!
:banghead:

BadBadBad

I've been down the road of pacifying the christian, and it just doesn't work. This is about them not you. You're going to Hell, and there's no two ways about that. Oh, but that's kind of a problem for them. They're worshipping and praying to the god that has predestined you to Hell, will damn you to Hell, or will stand by as you choose to go to Hell. Their destiny is an eternity knowing you're screaming in Hell, along very possibly with your children and grand children. It just gives me goosebumps to think of all that love! Let's all praise God!

I have an idea. Next time they ask you to pray or say grace, pray outloud to God and ask him to stop hardening your heart against God like Paul describes in Romans 9. I think they might get it then.

They're not really asking you to pray. They're not asking you to just go to church. They're not just asking to play the charade parent role in indoctrinating your children. They're asking you to buy into the whole cult culture. You don't buy it, and they shouldn't be surprised that if they keep asking, you keep telling them you don't believe in God. Your answer isn't the problem. The fact that they keep asking the question and insisting you be something you're not is.

brighid

It seems that this is going to be an ongoing struggle for you and either the two of you are going to find a way to compromise (that does not mean you making ALL the concessions), or this will may very likely be the straw that broke the camels proverbial back.

Perhaps you can ask your wife if her God is omniscient (and knows all?) If He is omniscient then he would know that she had been harmed in any hypothetical accident and would therefore not need you, or anyone else to petition Him for her health and welfare, if He saw fit to heal her. If she believes in this God and His omniscience, and likely believes to “put things in God’s hands” and “if it is His will” etc. then how could your prayers have an effect on what He already knows and ordained? Shouldn’t she trust in Him and isn’t praying to this God to do special favors for your wife nothing short of bribery (when you actually examine the act of prayer outside of the need to self-soothe)? If her God indeed exists, if her God is omniscient (knows all, sees all, etc.) then your time and energy is better spent taking action by making sure she has the best medical care, that she is comfortable, that the children are taken care of, etc. She should have faith in her God that He will take care of her without needing the begging and pleading of a husband he already knows loves her and already knows your desire to have your wife heal quickly and with as little pain as possible.

I am sorry she keeps threatening you with this hypothetical divorce scenario in an attempt to what seems like manipulating you to do what SHE wants you to do. I wish there were a way to help her walk a mile in your shoes and perhaps feel the frustration of being asked to pray and capitulate to a God she does not believe in (through coercion and manipulation.) This is what she really needs to experience because she seems unable to understand.

Brighid

Goliath

Vicar Philip,

I'm sorry to hear that things are going so badly. It is completely unreasonable for her to expect you to go to church, say grace, pray, or do any other xian activity.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again: Get the hell out of this broken relationship while you can, Vicar Philip! You and your children are too good for your bitch of a wife!

Sincerely,

Goliath

JCS

Good idea! Pick a religion that is quite different from hers and since pretending is where you are now, pretend you believe in this other god, then flip the whole guilt and threat theatrics around to try and convert her to your new found god.

All kidding aside, what a bummer that the inevitable had to rear its ugly head so soon. You have conceded far more than reasonable and have shown far more toleration than could be expected. I agree with Goliath, life is to short for this cyclic BS. Good luck with whatever you capitulate to next.

HelenM

Hi VP, I'm sorry to hear about the latest round of conflict

I think I remember you saying your wife didn't adapt easily to 'change'.

Do you think part of the reason things have gotten stirred up again is that she's unsettled by the possibility of you changing jobs? If she's worried about money and you're the only one earning any - or you're earning most of it (I forgot if she quit or just cut down her hours) then she might be anxious regarding any uncertainty/change in your job, I would think.

I know it makes me nervous if my husband starts talking about changing jobs. I know it's his choice but I still get nervous because it will affect all of us to a varying degree, if he does.

And if the pattern is like before, it may take her a little while to see that that's upsetting her - that it's not just your 'lack of faith'.

Helen

Proxima Centauri

A few months ago you agreed to go to church. We encouraged you at the time because we hoped it would help inprove the relationship.
Each time you make a concession it improves things temporarily. Later she is demonding yet more concessions. In future when she demands concessions stop going to church for a week or so until she stops. That way she will see that demanding more concessions isn't working. Are you still allowed to discuss atheism with the kids? Has she stopped that too?