Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Corwin · 03-18-2002, 10:28 AM

Now you're just reaching, and apparently have an axe to grind. (Either with myself or the mental health industry... or both...)

Someone else deal with this fool. I have neither the time nor the energy.

Corey Hammer · 03-18-2002, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Now you're just reaching, and apparently have an axe to grind. (Either with myself or the mental health industry... or both...)

Corwin, slow down and take a breath. You make such large sweeping generalizations that someone has to question you on them. Since I'm trained in one of branches of the science (Ph.D. candidate in experimental psych), I thought I should do it.

Quote:

Someone else deal with this fool. I have neither the time nor the energy.

Now who's engaging in ad hominem attacks? Is that the best counterargument you can give?

[ March 18, 2002: Message edited by: Corey Hammer ]

Jayhawker Soule · 03-18-2002, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ts2125:
there is no real tangible psychiatric standard, its all abstract and wether or not religion is a mental illness will be half of the debate but i dont need help with that b/c i can already prove it is a mental illness to a sufficent degree in a debate round, i didnt come on here asking how to debate that, i came here looking for someone with articles saying how science will kill off religion

This is very, very wierd.

Corey Hammer · 03-18-2002, 03:40 PM

I pulled out my old abnormal psych textbook when I got home from work this evening.

The DSV-IV defines a mental illness as among other things, a set of involuntary, maladaptive behaviors that causes impairment in functioning across many realms including job performance and personal relationships. It does not include voluntarily-held beliefs and voluntary actions.

Religious beliefs do not meet those criteria.

Corwin · 03-18-2002, 03:48 PM

Ah.....

So the person that decides he's a small lime wedge, and amuses himself by jumping into and out of a small lake that thinks it's a gin and tonic....

He's totally sane. Right?

Bill · 03-18-2002, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ts2125:
hi im in debate and next year i have to make a case solving for mental illness so im claiming religion to be a mental illness and my plan is gonna give huge federal grants to science to hasten the demise of religion, so what i need is help from someone with articles saying how science will eventually triumph over religion and how its days are numbered

Why don't you begin by finding and reading this book: <a href="http://www.secweb.org/bookstore/bookdetail.asp?BookID=690" target="_blank">Why God Won't Go Away: Brain Science and the Biology of Belief</a> by Andrew B. Newberg, Eugene G. D'Aquili, and Vince Rause.

Quote:

Over the centuries, theories have abounded as to why human beings have a seemingly irrational attraction to God and religious experiences. In Why God Won't Go Away authors Andrew Newberg, M.D., Eugene D'Aquili, M.D., and Vince Rause offer a startlingly simple, yet scientifically plausible opinion: humans seek God because our brains are biologically programmed to do so.

Researchers Newberg and D'Aquili used high-tech imaging devices to peer into the brains of meditating Buddhists and Franciscan nuns. As the data and brain photographs flowed in, the researchers began to find solid evidence that the mystical experiences of the subjects "were not the result of some fabrication, or simple wishful thinking, but were associated instead with a series of observable neurological events," explains Newberg. "In other words, mystical experience is biologically, observably, and scientifically real.... Gradually, we shaped a hypothesis that suggests that spiritual experience, at its very root, is intimately interwoven with human biology."--Gail Hudson

[ March 18, 2002: Message edited by: Bill ]

Corey Hammer · 03-18-2002, 05:53 PM

Quote:

So the person that decides he's a small lime wedge, and amuses himself by jumping into and out of a small lake that thinks it's a gin and tonic....He's totally sane. Right?

As long as it doesn't impair his functioning in other situations, yup.

Corwin · 03-18-2002, 06:48 PM

Sounds like 'an alcoholic isn't an addict if he can control it' to me.

Personally I say he's still crazy.

Corey Hammer · 03-19-2002, 04:23 AM

That would depend on your point of view. Speaking from my decided nonclinical experience, I think you can have a drinking problem (i.e., you drink too much) without being an alcoholic (who, by definition if I recall correctly, cannot control their drinking).

Francois Tremblay · 03-19-2002, 05:19 AM

Religion is certainly a mental disease, but it doesn't necessarily make one crazy. If it wasn't part of our genetic makeup, then I guess we could call it crazy.

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03-18-2002, 10:28 AM	#21
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	Now you're just reaching, and apparently have an axe to grind. (Either with myself or the mental health industry... or both...) Someone else deal with this fool. I have neither the time nor the energy.

03-18-2002, 03:40 PM	#24
Corey Hammer Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 368	I pulled out my old abnormal psych textbook when I got home from work this evening. The DSV-IV defines a mental illness as among other things, a set of involuntary, maladaptive behaviors that causes impairment in functioning across many realms including job performance and personal relationships. It does not include voluntarily-held beliefs and voluntary actions. Religious beliefs do not meet those criteria.

03-18-2002, 03:48 PM	#25
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	Ah..... So the person that decides he's a small lime wedge, and amuses himself by jumping into and out of a small lake that thinks it's a gin and tonic.... He's totally sane. Right?

03-18-2002, 06:48 PM	#28
Corwin Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Posts: 4,369	Sounds like 'an alcoholic isn't an addict if he can control it' to me. Personally I say he's still crazy.

03-19-2002, 04:23 AM	#29
Corey Hammer Regular Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 368	That would depend on your point of view. Speaking from my decided nonclinical experience, I think you can have a drinking problem (i.e., you drink too much) without being an alcoholic (who, by definition if I recall correctly, cannot control their drinking).

03-19-2002, 05:19 AM	#30
Francois Tremblay Banned Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Montreal, QC Canada Posts: 876	Religion is certainly a mental disease, but it doesn't necessarily make one crazy. If it wasn't part of our genetic makeup, then I guess we could call it crazy.

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