sighhswolf

Of course, now I'm even angrier with the Christian religion. The whole thing simply misleads people constantly. I feel like I have been betrayed (or made a fool of). They portray this religion like it is the most wonderful, life saving, loving, American thing on earth. When the reality is just the opposite.

Amazing isnt it.
The human mind is a thing of wonder.
We can convince ourselves of anything given the need of the moment.
If we feel the need of a savior, then we create one.

If we need hero's we appoint a few.

If we feel unloved and lonely, we create a loving warm presence to comfort ourselves, one that requires very little personal involvement and individual one on one social interaction(as is usually required in a human to human relationship that could end badly) and will never abandon us.

If we feel anger at the prospect of what we perceive as unfairness, oppression, discriminatory practices we create a villan an "evil" that becomes the target and focus of that anger.

And all of these creations, born in our own minds are manifest in reality by the greatest illusion of all organized religion.

Sad in a way.....
We would rather escape reality, than face our fears and superstitions and destroy all the lies
and deception that plague us.

Wolf

Plebe

Janaya, Let us all know what you think after reading these:
<a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_wheless/forgery_in_christianity/index.shtml" target="_blank">http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_wheless/forgery_in_christianity/index.shtml</a>

<a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/m_m_mangasarian/truth_about_jesus.html" target="_blank">http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/m_m_mangasarian/truth_about_jesus.html</a>

<a href="http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/maccoby.htm" target="_blank">http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/maccoby.htm</a> A Jewish Scholar's analysis of errors in the New Testament

<a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/1994/3/3hare94.html" target="_blank">http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/1994/3/3hare94.html</a>

<a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/1994/4/4zoroa94.html" target="_blank">http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/1994/4/4zoroa94.html</a>

<a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa.htm" target="_blank">http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa.htm</a>

Anyone who has not read these will find them interesting in answering many questions about New Testament selection, creation and influence.

Janaya

Helen just informed me that my post of this morning did indeed appear. I have no idea how people are replying because I can't see anyone's posts after that. I thought maybe I would try posting again and see if it works.

Here goes.

Janaya

RJS

And of course, "If we don't want to surrender to the truth, we ignore it all"

Janaya, I would suggest you think about these two statements you made.

So your heart tells you one thing, but the internet tells you differently. One third of the world believes, but the internet is pulling you otherwise. What year is it - 2002? Think about it. Do you really think Jesus was a myth?

My sense is that you are not an atheist, and continue to believe in God. You sound like you are in the middle of a productive search. I would recommend looking for support for Jesus as Son of God in many places besides <a href="http://www.infidels.org." target="_blank">www.infidels.org.</a> You wont find it here

RJS

He moves in mysterious ways

NOGO

Nonsense!

Christian education messes your emotions to no end. I went through it as well. My intellect (not the internet) told me that it was all myth but I was still attached, emotionally attached.

I was not a believer, anymore than I am now.

Emotions are a funny thing but you can control them. With time I nursed by emotional back to normal. That is free from dogma and ignorance.

I have become a free person and have never looked back.

RJS
Belief in God has nothing to do with Jesus son of God which is a myth.

[ September 21, 2002: Message edited by: NOGO ]</p>

Janaya

No. My intellect tells me differently. There is an emotional remnant in my mind. It's like being addicted to something. You know it is bad for you but some part of you still wants it.

Belief does not necessarily reflect truth. If one third of all scientists accept evolution does that make it a fact? No. Evidence, experimentation, reason, etc. make it an acceptable explanation.
I accept that the Jesus portrayed in the Bible did not exist. However, someone (or some people)whom Jesus was based on may have existed at that time.

My problem is an emotional one. I am surrounded by Christian culture. I grew up with this. My whole family are Christians of one sort or another. Many people that I know and work with and are friends with that I respect a gread deal are Christians. I suspect that my emotional remnants are based more on acceptance and approval than anything else.

Janaya

Janaya

Exactly. I don't think that I'm entirely still emotionally attached (though perhaps a sliver remains). I think it has more to do with peer pressure, cultural inundation, conditioning to follow authority, and apparent betrayal to my family. Intellectually I reject Christianity (among other things). However, occasionally, (to my horror) I find myself wondering if maybe I missed something. Or maybe part of it is that I kinda feel like I'm doing something wrong. I don't know. I'm still trying to figure it out.

It's good to know that I am not alone. Perhaps I just need more time.

Janaya

Amos

You are correct that reality is just opposite to religion for otherwise metanoia could not be possible but I am afraid that you are not old enough to find the silver bullet.

[ September 22, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]</p>

NOGO

We are all different with different needs. One of the things which I found hardest to abandon was my attachment to the image of Jesus which my parent and community instilled in me from early my years.

This began to fade when I re-read the Gospels. It is ammasing the difference when reading the Gospels as a believer and then re-reading them as a non-believer. When I read the Gospels now I wonder what kind of a nut case Jesus really was.

For example all this talk about "I come from above but you are of the devil". Would a God say something so obnoxious.

Also "unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you cannot have eternal life", he then explains to his disciples what he actually meant. The flesh and blood are not important, what matters is the word from God which he told his disciples. My problem here is how can anyone listening to his speech about the flesh and blood can figure out the explanation that he gave his disciples. It can't be done. Appart from insanity I cannot account for this behaviour. This bit can be found in the Gospel of John.

Jesus also said that he could forgive sin. To prove it he cured someone saying "So that you know that the son of man has the power to forgive sin I tell get up and walk ...". How can anybody now believe the miracles in the NT? Sick people are sick because they have sinned. Riiiight!
We can certainly see that this is true from everyday experience.

... and so on!

The Bible is its biggest enemy. Unfortunately people don't read it.