Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Sabine Grant · 01-09-2003, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JerryM
Arguments can be made for any number of times when a fetus becomes a "person"--ranging from the moment of conception, through various points of central nervous system development, to viability, or to the moment of birth. But as a practical matter, it ultimately comes down to a legal issue--decided by court ruling or by statute. I see it exactly analagous to how we determine such things as the age of majority, or the voting age, or the legal drinking age. Some point will be codified in law as a practical necessity. It may seem arbitrary, but that's usually how the law works.

As a matter of fact , it was the Supreme Court decision to not apply the status of constitutional identity to the unborn therefor to declare that the unborn cannot benefit of any constitutional rights such as the right to see its life protected.

The Naked Mage · 01-10-2003, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Sabine Grant:

One would consider protecting her body from unwanted pregnancies with greater care if one were to be presented with facts that expose the humanity of the unborn rather than " there is absolutly no life... no big deal".

How about the doctor tells it like it is instead?

"There is a clump of brainless organic matter, parasitic in nature, that is indistinguishable from a pig fetus without the aid of sensitive scientific equipment. Big deal? You decide."

That seems like a more ethical course of action to me than semi-veiled emotional blackmail.

Sabine Grant · 01-10-2003, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Naked Mage
How about the doctor tells it like it is instead?

"There is a clump of brainless organic matter, parasitic in nature, that is indistinguishable from a pig fetus without the aid of sensitive scientific equipment. Big deal? You decide."

That seems like a more ethical course of action to me than semi-veiled emotional blackmail.

Hopefuly you are not a physician....

The Naked Mage · 01-11-2003, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Hopefuly you are not a physician....

Why's that?

Sabine Grant · 01-11-2003, 08:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Naked Mage
Why's that?

Because you have to present the scientific reality and medical reality about the various stages of growth of the unborn human fetus objectively. Your comment implies that you evaluate a human fetus to have no brain activity at any time or a sensorial ability to pain. Or did I misread you?

The Naked Mage · 01-12-2003, 12:27 AM

I was talking about an abortion performed early in the pregnancy - when the fetus actually does possess those characteristics and few others. There is, of course, a sketchy boundary beyond which abortion should be permitted only under the most dire of circumstances - that is, whenever the brain becomes functional and, specifically, when it becomes sensitive to pain.

winstonjen · 01-12-2003, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amie
Hi winstonjen
just out of curiosity what would you consider the most extreme cases to be?

Hi! Once again, sorry for the late reply.

Extreme cases to me are pregnancies where the baby has fatal defects, etc.

In most other cases, I feel that the woman could just give it up to adoption, or deliver the baby early if it is a risk to the woman's life.

However, as I am not a woman, I do not feel that I can fairly judge what they choose to do.

Claudia · 01-14-2003, 08:21 AM

See Jamie_L answer, identical to mine.

View Poll Results: When can Abortion be Justified?
Never! It is murder no matter what the circumstances are!!!	0	0%
Abortion should be done only in the most extreme cases - not as a method of birth control	8	10.67%
If the parents cannot afford to keep the baby	0	0%
If adoption is not possible or if it will kill the mother, the baby, or both.	5	6.67%
The woman has the choice, but other people should also have a say in the decision.	11	14.67%
It's the woman's choice - under any circumstances she can abort	51	68.00%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

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01-12-2003, 12:27 AM	#46
The Naked Mage Veteran Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: The Execution State, USA Posts: 5,031	I was talking about an abortion performed early in the pregnancy - when the fetus actually does possess those characteristics and few others. There is, of course, a sketchy boundary beyond which abortion should be permitted only under the most dire of circumstances - that is, whenever the brain becomes functional and, specifically, when it becomes sensitive to pain.

01-14-2003, 08:21 AM	#48
Claudia Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: France Posts: 715	See Jamie_L answer, identical to mine.

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