Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Buffman · 06-07-2002, 12:29 PM

Toto

I agree. Sorry.--- I was just attempting to raise the issue of what happens when the State becomes/is the Church. If the State government were an Amish government, what laws would be followed or created in regard to public safety. How does this compare with what we now have at the helm of our Federal government? It looks and acts more like a Christian Sect Church, rather than a Secular, government to me.

scigirl · 06-07-2002, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Buffman:
How does not wearing a seat belt threaten public safety? Is public safety threatened if you do not have mud flaps on your vehicle? How does polygamy threaten public safety? Who decides which individuals need protection from themselves? (Psychiatrists or politicians?) How does euthanasia impact on public safety? How does placing one of the biblical Decalogues, or "In God We Trust," in all the public buildings increase our safety/liberty?

Good questions. Pick one, and i'll debate it with ya. (but perhaps another forum would be appropriate)

scigirl

Grumpy · 06-07-2002, 02:11 PM

Quote:

...the Pittsburgh attorney representing the Amish for the American Civil Liberties Union...

Hey! The ACLU is supposed to make life harder for religious folks! Everyone knows they ignore the rights of god-fearing people, always trampling on nativity scenes and such. They must have some ulterior motive!!

Buffman · 06-07-2002, 03:01 PM

scigirl

Thanks for the offer. Perhaps some other time.

I was merely attempting to introduce questions concerning how a government controlled by the Church would respond to what it labeled the issues of public safety. OR, how a government controlled by the Church might use the issue of public safety to promote its own religious dogma agenda.

Look how the War on Drugs/Alcohol is being used by this government to promote a religious agenda...the Faith Based Initiative. (i.e.: Protecting us against ourselves through the love of Jesus?) Look how quickly some of our Constitutional rights have been compromised by the USA Patriot Act that was rushed through Congress with little, if any, debate. Look at the current push in Federal and State legislatures to place religious references/beliefs in the public square.

1. Ten Commandments Defense Act
2. School Prayer Amendment
3. American Flag Amendment
4. House of Worship Political Speech Protection Act

I watched as this same kind of activity took place during the 1950's. We have certainly discussed the religious results of the Red Menace scare enough. Today, those same religious advocates are taking advantage of, if not actually fanning, the flames of fear to advance their dogma even further into our supposedly secular culture/society.

So when I read your thoughts about "public safety overriding religious freedom," and that we sometimes "need protection...from ourselves," I couldn't help having sudden feelings of deja vu. I simply thought "public safety overriding constitutional liberties," and "needing religion to protect us from ourselves." (My primary error, of several, was in not amplifying my thoughts for a full examination.)

JohnR · 06-08-2002, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto:
<strong>Previous thread mentioning this:

<a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=59&t=000052&p=" target="_blank">Jesus and Building Permits</a>

Dr. Dino was trying to avoid the necessity of a building permit for his theme park (the requirement for a building permit is based on the need for public safety.) He argued that the Amish are exempt from safely laws, so he should be also.
That Amish web site does tend to undermine their case, unless it is just a ploy by the local chamber of commerce.</strong>

Yeah, put your kids on those rides.

[ June 08, 2002: Message edited by: JohnR ]

[ June 08, 2002: Message edited by: JohnR ]</p>

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06-07-2002, 12:29 PM	#11
Buffman Beloved Deceased Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central Florida Posts: 3,546	Toto I agree. Sorry.--- I was just attempting to raise the issue of what happens when the State becomes/is the Church. If the State government were an Amish government, what laws would be followed or created in regard to public safety. How does this compare with what we now have at the helm of our Federal government? It looks and acts more like a Christian Sect Church, rather than a Secular, government to me.

06-07-2002, 03:01 PM	#14
Buffman Beloved Deceased Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: central Florida Posts: 3,546	scigirl Thanks for the offer. Perhaps some other time. I was merely attempting to introduce questions concerning how a government controlled by the Church would respond to what it labeled the issues of public safety. OR, how a government controlled by the Church might use the issue of public safety to promote its own religious dogma agenda. Look how the War on Drugs/Alcohol is being used by this government to promote a religious agenda...the Faith Based Initiative. (i.e.: Protecting us against ourselves through the love of Jesus?) Look how quickly some of our Constitutional rights have been compromised by the USA Patriot Act that was rushed through Congress with little, if any, debate. Look at the current push in Federal and State legislatures to place religious references/beliefs in the public square. 1. Ten Commandments Defense Act 2. School Prayer Amendment 3. American Flag Amendment 4. House of Worship Political Speech Protection Act I watched as this same kind of activity took place during the 1950's. We have certainly discussed the religious results of the Red Menace scare enough. Today, those same religious advocates are taking advantage of, if not actually fanning, the flames of fear to advance their dogma even further into our supposedly secular culture/society. So when I read your thoughts about "public safety overriding religious freedom," and that we sometimes "need protection...from ourselves," I couldn't help having sudden feelings of deja vu. I simply thought "public safety overriding constitutional liberties," and "needing religion to protect us from ourselves." (My primary error, of several, was in not amplifying my thoughts for a full examination.)

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