NOGO

As opposed to retain eternal falsehoods no matter what.

babelfish

Are you implying that the bible represents a good example of unchanging cultural norms?

Straight Hate

As of late, I've been doing a lot of self-questioning into my need to create enemies so as to stand apart from them and create a stronger sense of identity. What comes as a shocker, however, is the extent to which so many of the posters in the linked thread hold the world as a threat, and prop it up as some sortof grave evil.

Maybe I don't have a problem after all? Yikes, that thread scares me - it'll be awhile before I find it funny.

The Naked Mage

Remind me to hack that site sometime.

Gregg

I think it's probably true that promiscuity and unhealthy relationships are relatively more prevalent among gays than among straights. So, it's understandable that people who don't think very deeply or logically will think homosexuality=promiscuity, ignoring the fact that large numbers of heterosexuals ARE also promiscuous and/or involved in dysfunctional relationships.

Of course, it only takes a few minutes of thought to come up with all sorts of reasons as to why promiscuity and dysfunctional relationships are more prevalent among gays, percentage-wise:

1. Most gays go through the crucial teen years "in the closet." They can't date, go to dances, experience puppy love and heartbreak, etc., so when they reach adulthood and are able to indulge their feelings and desires, they are emotionally and socially immature. Naturally this is going to affect the ability of many of them to form long-term relationships.

2. Society tells gays they are sick perverts, that their feelings are evil and wrong. Hearing this about yourself from the moment you first began to realize you were different from the other kids is bound to create guilt and self-esteem issues in most if not all gay adolescents, which are carried into adulthood. This, too, is going to impair their ability to form healthy, long-term relationships.

3. Perhaps the most important thing emerging from all this is the fact that many gays are very, very alone as adolescents (and are often rejected by their parents) and grow into adults who are starved for love, affection, approval, attention, etc. Naturally, many of them are going to try to get these things from as many people as possible, and aren't going to be choosy about who they get them from.

4. Finally, there is the simple "kid let loose in a candy store" effect. If you've been holding your sexual desires inside all through your teen years and suddenly have the freedom to indulge them, you might go more than a little nuts. Happens to plenty of hetero kids when they go away to college.

In conclusion, it's probably society's backwards attitudes toward homosexuality, not homosexuality itself, that's responsible for the higher percentage of promiscuity among gays.

It DOES appear to me (trying to be objective here, not judgmental) that the gay "culture" somewhat condones promiscuity and regards it as normal and even desirable. That's just my impression, please correct me if I'm wrong. Even if I'm right, this attitude is understandable. People who have been subjected to judgment and condemnation from youth might react in one of two ways--becoming extremely judgmental themselves, or going in the opposite direction and accepting/tolerating practically anything. Also, there might be a desire to actively reject, to flout, the rules, mores, and morals of the society that has treated them so harshly.

As you can tell, I personally don't think widespread promiscuity--a prevalance of shallow, sex based multiple or serial relationships--is healthy for a society or for groups within the society. I realize that there will always be promiscuous people and I don't judge or condemn them; I just don't think such behavior should be condoned or encouraged. So, while I feel society needs to take the initiative in becoming more accepting and tolerant of gays--and to support long-term monogamous relationships among gays--I also think more gays need to realize that reducing promiscuous behavior is in their own best interests. They need to challenge the perception in the straight community that homosexuality=promiscuity, and also give a greater voice to gays who feel long-term monogamous relationships, rather than short-term, multiple, or serial relationships, should be the norm. While it may feel good and liberating to reject ALL of society's "rules" regarding relationships, that doesn't mean it's always the right or rational thing to do.

Gregg

diana

Very good post, Gregg.

I've think about this every time yet another person says "homosexuals are more promiscuous than heterosexuals," because it always sounds like a very unfair generalization to me.

I think there are many factors that come into play with those who are promiscuous, and those factors may or may not have any relation to that person's sexual preference.

The more I think about it, the most I think the sexual behavior of homosexuals is just as culturally based as is the sexual behavior of heterosexuals. I also think you'll find the same percentages, in a fair cross-section of heteros and homos, of serial monogamists, cheaters, and sluts (or however you want to categorize them).

The only real difference is that homosexuals don't officially have a religious tie to one another as most of the "I've been with the same person my whole life" heteros do. And I strongly suspect that, if these heteros had their druthers, they would have sampled the buffet at some point, too.

I've not met, to my knowledge, any couple who has been "together forever" of their own choice. In every case (that I've seen), there was at least one point in their relationship (but usually far more) that they were utterly miserable together and would have gone their separate ways and the only reason they stayed together was religious belief, children, and/or convenience. Each of these are simply different motivations for self-denial--for God, for the kids, or because the fear and/or work of starting over (alone or in another relationship) is greater than the desire to leave.

I think the people who actually have only ever slept with one person their entire lives (out of choice) are so negligible as to be an insignificant percentage of the whole, in either group. When you really look at it, the legality of marriage doesn't make heteros any more faithful to their spouses than homos are to their lovers--it just makes the breakup a bigger hassle (and more expensive).

But back to the "culturally-based" thing I was talking about a minute ago....There are some sub-cultures where premarital sex or promiscuity are accepted by most as a normal thing; there are other sub-cultures where these things are condemned. The number of sexual partners a person goes through, I think, probably depends far more on what sort of sub-culture they emerged from than their sexual preference (or orientation...whatever).

But then, a person who grows up in either culture may think the grass is greener on the other side and cross over at adulthood. My point is that a person's promiscuity or lack thereof seems to be a case of individual values rather than having anything to do with the type of plumbing they prefer in a partner.

And the vast majority of sexually active heterosexual people who condemn homosexuals for their "promiscuity" have slept with more than one partner themselves (and usually far more than one). So their reasoning seems to go something like this: "He's slept with 50 people but I've only slept with 20; therefore, he's promiscuous and despicable." (And/or, "He's a slut but I was just going through a phase.")

Or "That guy has slept with 20 people this year, but I've only slept with 5 my entire life." Comments like this always sound self-righteous (like the speaker is looking for a basis for comparison that will make them look good)--with a hint of jealousy--for some reason.

Oh...and I almost forgot: "And I was in love with them." Oh well. That makes it okay, then.

Sorry to ramble. In retrospect, I guess my heterosexual/homosexual rant evolved into my personal issues with those who feel they're somehow better human beings than I am because they don't enjoy sex as much as I do.

Well unfuck 'em.

d

Captain Pedantic

It's a little like drugs, in my opinion.

The reason why "soft" drugs may concievably be a "gateway" to "hard" drugs is because the kids may have been told for years that cannabis would make them insane and turn them into a prostitute to feed their weed habit. They then try some and find out that this is not the case, which leads a percentage of them to try harder drugs to see how much they can get away with.

In a similar manner, the kids may have been told that being gay, and having hot, hot sex with people with the same shaped genitalia as yourself will lead you to go blind, and become a blind paedophile prostitute, and insane, and going to hell when you die. Then, some of the kids find out, through personal (and you can't get much more personal than that) experience that this is not the case. So they may try other sexual practises to see what they can get away with.

Although, frankly, most of the people who do the rubber'n'whips stuff are (a)straight (b)married (c)with children (d)middle aged (e) respectable pillars of the community (f)your parents' friends. Which is enough to put anyone off, straight or gay.

Furthermore, I don't actually think it matters if someone's slept with 1, 10, 100 or 10,000 people. As long as they use a fresh condom each time. Because HIV isn't cool, kids.[/your doctor] But promiscuity doesn't matter. Look at the animal kingdom. Look at rabbits. You wondered where the kids got those rude ideas from - have you considered Flopsy, looking all innocent in his hutch? With his cute floppy ears? He's a shag monster supremo. And so's Fido, or he was until you got him "done".

See, these people talk about what's "natural", and they don't even consider what nature's actually like.

Zippy

Jesus Christ - that thread was the most horrible, creepy thing I've read for a very long time. Why are there such abominable people in the world? I would rate these people lower than animals. I feel quite sick now. Rant over.

Thumbs up to the Rev. Joshua.

Paul