David Bowden

Since this business with the 9th circuit court decision regarding the Pledge of Allegiance was dropped into our collective lap the other day, I am wondering what, if any, related legal proceedings are underway anywhere in the country.

If you know of any, or if anyone has a serious proposal or project that we Internet Infidels might take action on, please post here.

Bill (Administrator / Member # 3 ) responded to my recent Site Feedback query with info on...

How might we take action beyond the letter-writing campaign? I'm eager to get working on this, whatever "this" might need to be.

-Wanderer

atheist_in_foxhole

I don't think there is a next step for us. The Xians who run this country have made it clear that they want gawd in the pledge (and on the currency etc.), and even if we non-believers do win in court the Xians will just pass a constitutional amendment protecting gawd. That would be the worst possible outcome.

The only way we can get rid of this gawd crap is to educate people and help them to see that there are no supernatural beings watching over us or "blessing" us. Until that day comes we'll just have to be satisfied with what we have accomplished in the past (banning school prayer, removal of 10C etc.).

Spazmatic

There's some important things we can do.

Make noise. Lots of noise. We have to make up for numbers with intensity. Talkshows, letters to the editors, whatever it takes. Get up there and SHOUT!

There is one thing to think about, though. As likely as it looks that things will be overturned... There is still some hope otherwise. My thinking thus arises from the fact that justices are appointed for life (SC). So, basically, they have little to actually fear. One problem, though, is that Congress is trying to bulldoze them over and strongarm their decision, by the looks of it, a rather hefty inbalance in the system of checks and balances. The justices probably won't like having their power usurped in that manner, and may rule to sustain just to make their point. Small hope, but it's there. ;-)

Anyways, there is always passive resistance. For ever and ever, make it quite apparent how much you dislike that ruling.

Buffman

Too bad someone doesn't have the money to hire the best legal minds/organization in the country and sue the 99 members of the Senate and the President for malfeasance while in office....failure to uphold their sworn pledge to the Constitution. Win or lose, it might go a long way in educating the American public...and what it stands to lose if it continues to elect government representatives that place the Christian Bible before the Constitution.

gilly54

If the Celebrity Atheists list is accurate, Bill Gates and Ted Turner come to mind! Although Mr. Gates might not want to anger the politicians further as Microsoft is their anti-monopoly target. That leaves Mr. Turner, who might take on the knee-jerks in DC and piss off his ex-wife- turned-born-again Christian, Jane at the same time!

Gilly

[ June 30, 2002: Message edited by: gilly54 ]</p>

Buffman

gilly54

I sincerely doubt that there is a case for what I suggested. My remark was made more in frustration than in the likelihood of having any actual legal viability. However, the single most important thing that any rational American do to help fight our loss of individual rights is to guard against stacking the Supreme Court with any more "God" fearing judges.

The U.S. Constitution only means what five of those nine humans say it means. The Judiciary is the only individual rights and freedom of conscious protection that any of us have from an administration/Congress bent on a power hungry path of tyranny and dictatorship in the name of its supernatural god and patriotism. And this current administration is already attempting to stack the deck with its legal scholars who still believe in the superstitions and fairytales of childhood and ignorance.

gilly54

I know that nothing like what you and I proposed will happen. It was just wishful thinking on my part. Other items on my wish list:

I wish the basis of this Pledge controversy is so legally tight, that it will result in all the other encroachments of religion being removed from our government. Swear on the Constitution to uphold the Constitution!

I wish we could have a Godless American march, not only in DC, but in several major cities across the country.

I wish there was an atheist cable channel to counter the multiple religious ones. If not an entire channel, then at least some programs: A comedy show along the lines of Saturday Night Live,a talk show or two, a game show like Jeopardy where the contestants have to actually KNOW something and a natural history program showing how farcical the Bible is.

Oh, well, back to the real world!

Gilly

galiel

Please don't be offended, but you people really surprise me. So ready to throw up your hands and submit to discrimination. So fatalistic.

Study some American history. Women didn't win the right to vote by sitting around and comiserating. African Americans didn't win the right to vote by "just taking it". Gays didn't win the rights they have thus far by being passive. Most importantly, it takes a long process of education for the rest of society to understand our situation and empathize. Society can change, but only if people change it.

Right now, most people honestly do not understand our plight. They do not understand what it is like to live like an unwanted pest in one's one country. This is not because they are evil, it is because they are ignorant. We bear direct responsibility for their behavior because we, as nonbelievers, by and large refuse to stand up and be counted and teach.

Not everyone can organize a movement, fight a legal battle, or speak on national TV. But each and every nonbeliever can choose to stand up and be heard, to openly and proudly espouse their beliefs, and to write a letter to the editor, or call in to a talk show, or just explain to their friends and relatives the pain we felt when we were excluded from all public expressions of grief following 9/11, or how we feel when we know that there is not a single district in the entire country where an openly atheist candidate has a chance to win an election.

Most people hate what they fear, and they fear what they do not know. Stand up, speak up, help change America. Help people experience shame for their treatment of their fellow Americans.

Pensee

Says someone who calls him/herself Spazmatic. Just kidding. I agree.

galiel: <img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" /> Thanx for sharing your input.

gilly54

Hi, Galiel,

There's nothing wrong with having a wish/hopelist:

I wish/hope that Sen.Feinstein responds to my e-mail telling her of my disagreement with her stance regarding the Court's decision.

I wish/hope that my letter to the editor gets published, as I was quite proud of it.

I wish/hope the director of the San Francisco branch of AA takes me up on my suggestion to have a rally here for people who can't make it to DC. I said I'd help in any way I can.

I think you will find that most of the people here are doing the exact same thing. But one thing I've learned is that you pick your fights carefully.

Welcome to II.

Gilly