Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Steve K · 05-23-2003, 01:34 PM

Theists (and ex-theists),

Which view of salvation do you [did you] hold? Some combination of the above? Other?

- Steve

Aravnah Ornan · 05-23-2003, 02:59 PM

When I was a Catholic, I believed in the verse from Luke, plus the parable of the sheep and the goats (Matt. 25:31-46) and the hazy notion of being a good person. When I was an evangelical Protestant, I believed in the verse from Romans. I never believed that water baptism is necessary for salvation, although I assumed that if the Bible mentions it, there must be some reason for it.

111111 · 05-23-2003, 03:00 PM

In my view (admittedly I am merely mortal, and cannot truly know the Mind of God), salvation comes from accepting that the parable of Jesus brings salvation. The story of Jesus is the story of a mortal man who comes into communion with God and becomes His son. This is a state of grace all of all should aspire to, but alas, not every human being has the spiritual and/or emotional fortitude to become like Christ.

While Christ may be a metaphor, His example shines down upon us all as the Light of Heaven. As Christ worked good deeds to become a son of God, so must we. Faith without works is empty. But works without faith is equally empty.

BadBadBad · 05-23-2003, 03:18 PM

Don't forget the Calvanist view of salvation:

�You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit....� -John 15:16

What about the atheist view of salvation

"Yeah Right!" Brettc

Writer@Large · 05-23-2003, 08:26 PM

Back when I was a little Xian, I always thought that good works brought about a ticket to Heaven. I never attended church as a child, you see, so I didn't get all the "salvation through Jesus" BS, and I naively thought that if I was nice, God would like me.

--W@L

blackhawk · 05-23-2003, 08:31 PM

I voted for the Romans passage but it is really more of a cmobination of the passages in context. Also you left out the #1 Bible verse of all time.

3:16-18
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(NAU)

Spaz · 05-23-2003, 08:46 PM

When I was christian, it was told to me that it was pretty much all of that (although I never saw an example of them all in the church...) Which is another thing I questioned when I was pretty young about the faith that led me away from it, why would a god require anything but being a good person?

Magus55 · 05-23-2003, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Spaz
When I was christian, it was told to me that it was pretty much all of that (although I never saw an example of them all in the church...) Which is another thing I questioned when I was pretty young about the faith that led me away from it, why would a god require anything but being a good person?

Because no human is "good" compared to God - you are about the most arrogant person in existence if you think anything you do even comes close to the perfection of God. But God knowing this, didn't require us to do works or live a good life because he knew, no human could do it - so He did it himself and the only requirement is to believe in and accept His gift to us. Salvation doesn't get any simpler.

Magus55 · 05-23-2003, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Writer@Large
Back when I was a little Xian, I always thought that good works brought about a ticket to Heaven. I never attended church as a child, you see, so I didn't get all the "salvation through Jesus" BS, and I naively thought that if I was nice, God would like me.

--W@L

God loves you, but no works or deeds you do are good enough to pay for a lifetime of sins against God. Its impossible for any normal human to do. If God wasn't merciful and loving - he would have held us accountable for our sins, and let us all face our punishment for sinning against Him - he in no way had to pay our debt - He did it because of how much He cares about us. No matter how much you don't believe in Him, he's there - waiting for you to give up your pride and accept Him into your life.

Spaz · 05-23-2003, 10:36 PM

Well it would seem to make sense, being as god would have made us this way, that when we tried to be our best to those around us and use the love that god wants so much that it would be enough for god. Your version seems to be a little mind game where god says "you're not good enough, so don't try to be good, just accept this dude instead of actually trying to do anything."

View Poll Results: Which best describe{s\|d} your attitude towards salvation?
Repent and be Baptized (Acts 2:38)	1	5.26%
Confess with the mouth, Believe in the heart (Romans 10:9)	5	26.32%
Do justice, love Mercy, walk Humbly (Micah 6:8)	2	10.53%
As you measure others, you will be measured (Luke 6:39)	1	5.26%
Any, all, other	10	52.63%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

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05-23-2003, 01:34 PM	#1
Steve K Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Corvallis, OR USA Posts: 64	Theists: View of Salvation? Theists (and ex-theists), Which view of salvation do you [did you] hold? Some combination of the above? Other? - Steve

05-23-2003, 02:59 PM	#2
Aravnah Ornan Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Alexandria, VA, Faith-Based States of Jesusland Posts: 1,794	When I was a Catholic, I believed in the verse from Luke, plus the parable of the sheep and the goats (Matt. 25:31-46) and the hazy notion of being a good person. When I was an evangelical Protestant, I believed in the verse from Romans. I never believed that water baptism is necessary for salvation, although I assumed that if the Bible mentions it, there must be some reason for it.

05-23-2003, 03:00 PM	#3
111111 Junior Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: USA Posts: 35	In my view (admittedly I am merely mortal, and cannot truly know the Mind of God), salvation comes from accepting that the parable of Jesus brings salvation. The story of Jesus is the story of a mortal man who comes into communion with God and becomes His son. This is a state of grace all of all should aspire to, but alas, not every human being has the spiritual and/or emotional fortitude to become like Christ. While Christ may be a metaphor, His example shines down upon us all as the Light of Heaven. As Christ worked good deeds to become a son of God, so must we. Faith without works is empty. But works without faith is equally empty.

05-23-2003, 03:18 PM	#4
BadBadBad Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: WHERE GOD IS NOT!!!!! Posts: 4,338	Don't forget the Calvanist view of salvation: �You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit....� -John 15:16 What about the atheist view of salvation "Yeah Right!" Brettc

05-23-2003, 08:26 PM	#5
Writer@Large Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 7,198	Back when I was a little Xian, I always thought that good works brought about a ticket to Heaven. I never attended church as a child, you see, so I didn't get all the "salvation through Jesus" BS, and I naively thought that if I was nice, God would like me. --W@L

05-23-2003, 08:31 PM	#6
blackhawk Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: texas Posts: 65	I voted for the Romans passage but it is really more of a cmobination of the passages in context. Also you left out the #1 Bible verse of all time. 3:16-18 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. 17 "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. 18 "He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (NAU)

05-23-2003, 08:46 PM	#7
Spaz Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: 6th Circle of Hell Posts: 1,093	When I was christian, it was told to me that it was pretty much all of that (although I never saw an example of them all in the church...) Which is another thing I questioned when I was pretty young about the faith that led me away from it, why would a god require anything but being a good person?

05-23-2003, 10:36 PM	#10
Spaz Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: 6th Circle of Hell Posts: 1,093	Well it would seem to make sense, being as god would have made us this way, that when we tried to be our best to those around us and use the love that god wants so much that it would be enough for god. Your version seems to be a little mind game where god says "you're not good enough, so don't try to be good, just accept this dude instead of actually trying to do anything."

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