Hondo

Hi all,

Here is my xtian friends interpretation of the Genesis 1 account of creation. He is a highly educated, top universites through the Doctorate level, individual. His evangelical beliefs do force him to attempt some incredible mental gymnastics.

In my opinion he plays fast and loose with his facts, and pays no mind to how the actual order of events had to unfold. Some problems with his chronology include. Day and night before the sun and moon are in place, production of land plants before the correct atmosphere, completely missing the point that the earliest organisms (plant and animal) developed in the oceans, were they could avoid the punishing unltraviolet rays, a problem later overcome by the development of oxygen and the ozone layer.

What do you think?
__________________________________________________ _
BIBLE: In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. (Genesis
1:1
NASB)

SCIENCE: The frame of reference in Genesis 1:1 is the cosmos. God
declares
that He brought into existence the entire physical universe-matter,
energy,
and all the space-time dimensions associated with matter and energy.
Einstein's theory of general relativity tells us that the cause of the
universe creates it independently (i.e. from outside) of matter,
energy, and
the space-time dimensions along which matter and energy are
distributed.
(Observations now securely establish the reliability of general
relativity.)

#1: Creation, by fiat miracle, of the entire physical universe
(space-time
dimensions, matter, energy, galaxies, stars, planets, etc.)

BIBLE: The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the
surface of
the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the
waters.
(Genesis 1:2 NASB)
SCIENCE: Genesis 1:2 explicitly shifts the frame of reference, the
narrator's vantage point, to the surface of Earth above the water but
below
the cloud layer. That verse describes the initial conditions of
primordial
Earth: its surface was dark, covered with water, empty of life, and
unfit
for life. With the frame of reference and the initial conditions for
the six
creation days thus established, a straightforward chronology for the
creation days' events unfolds.

planet Earth singled out for a sequence of creation miracles. At its
beginning, Earth is empty of life and unfit for life; interplanetary
debris
and Earth's primordial atmosphere prevent the light of the sun, moon,
and
stars from reaching the planet's surface

#2: DARKNESS (DARK ATMOSPHERE)

#3: SURFACE COVERED WITH WATER

#4: UNFIT/VOID OF LIFE

BIBLE: Then God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
(Genesis
1:3 NASB)

God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the
darkness. (Genesis 1:4 NASB)

God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there
was
evening and there was morning, one day. (Genesis 1:5 NASB)

SCIENCE: clearing of the interplanetary debris and partial
transformation of
the earth's atmosphere so that light from the heavenly bodies now
penetrates
to the surface of Earth's ocean

#5: PARTIAL CLEARING OF ATMOSPHERE

BIBLE: Then God said, "Let there be an expanse in the midst of the
waters,
and let it separate the waters from the waters." (Genesis 1:6 NASB)

God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the
expanse
from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. (Genesis
1:7
NASB)

God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was
morning,
a second day. (Genesis 1:8 NASB)

SCIENCE: formation of water vapor in the troposphere under conditions
that
establish a stable water cycle

#6: FORMATION OF STABLE WATER CYCLE

BIBLE: Then God said, "Let the waters below the heavens be gathered
into one
place, and let the dry land appear"; and it was so. (Genesis 1:9 NASB)

God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He
called
seas; and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:10 NASB)

SCIENCE: formation of continental land masses and ocean basins

#7: FORMATION OF SUPER CONTINENT

BIBLE: Then God said, "Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding
seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with
seed
in them"; and it was so. (Genesis 1:11 NASB)

The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their
kind,
and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God
saw
that it was good. (Genesis 1:12 NASB)

There was evening and there was morning, a third day. (Genesis 1:13
NASB)

SCIENCE: production of plants on the continental land masses

#8: PRODUCTION OF PLANTS

BIBLE: Then God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the
heavens to
separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for
seasons
and for days and years; (Genesis 1:14 NASB)

and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light
on
the earth"; and it was so. (Genesis 1:15 NASB)

God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and
the
lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. (Genesis 1:16
NASB)

God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the
earth,
(Genesis 1:17 NASB)

and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the
darkness; and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:18 NASB)

There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day. (Genesis 1:19
NASB)

SCIENCE: transformation of the atmosphere from translucent to
occasionally
transparent. Sun, Moon, planets, and stars now can be seen from the
vantage
point of Earth's surface

#9: TRANSLUCENT ATMOSPHERE

BIBLE: Then God said, "Let the waters teem with swarms of living
creatures... (Genesis 1:20 NASB)

SCIENCE: production of swarms of small sea animals.

#10: PRODUCTION OF SMALL SEA ANIMALS

...and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the
heavens. God
created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves,
with
which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after
its
kind; and God saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:21 NASB)

God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the
waters in
the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth." (Genesis 1:22 NASB)

There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. (Genesis 1:23
NASB)

SCIENCE: creation of sea mammals and birds

#11: PRODUCTION OF LARGE SEA ANIMALS

#12: PRODUCTION OF BIRDS

BIBLE: Then God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures after
their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after
their
kind"; and it was so. (Genesis 1:24 NASB)

God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after
their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind;
and God
saw that it was good. (Genesis 1:25 NASB)

SCIENCE: creation of three specialized kinds of land mammals: a)
short-legged land mammals, b) long-legged land mammals that are easy to
tame, and c) long-legged land mammals that are difficult to tame-all
three
specifically designed to cohabit with humans

#13: PRODUCTION OF LAND MAMMALS

BIBLE: Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our
likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds
of
the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every
creeping
thing that creeps on the earth." (Genesis 1:26 NASB)

God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him;
male
and female He created them. (Genesis 1:27 NASB)

God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and
fill
the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over
the
birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth."
(Genesis 1:28 NASB)

Then God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that
is
on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit
yielding
seed; it shall be food for you; (Genesis 1:29 NASB)

and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to
every
thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green
plant
for food"; and it was so. (Genesis 1:30 NASB)

God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there
was
evening and there was morning, the sixth day. (Genesis 1:31 NASB)

SCIENCE: creation of the human species

#14: CREATION OF HUMANS
__________________________________________________ _


Hondo

ps418

Maybe I'm as dense as diamond, but I'm not sure how any of this is supposed to reconcile Genesis with science? It looks for like the transcript of a free-association session to me, and does not even address the numerous conflicts.


Patrick

Arikay

Yeah, there seems to be some errors with this. From what I understand the earth didnt have dark atmosphere when it was created. And they seemed to have ignored that they used "heaven" to men two different things.

Its an interesting attempt but it doesnt seem to work very well.

Now all they need to do, is rearange some things for the different creation account in Gen 2.

Dr.GH

Thanks. I know I asked for it, but I just don't have enough time now to comment.

Do you know which web site (if any) this is from?

Hondo

Dr.GH

I believe that my friend is the original author of the work in question, although, I could be wrong. I have no reason to attribute it to another web sight at this point.

Hondo

Happy Wonderer

I'm confused about this statement, what does a theory about gravity tell us about the "cause of the universe?" Is there any foundation for such a claim, or is it a claim that relies upon most people (myself included) not understanding what general relativity is all about? (Sort of like creationists pulling in Shannon's entropy as 'proof' that information can't be created.)



hw

beastmaster

Mangled science makes baby Jesus cry.

I mean, there are gobloads of errors here. Plants are not older than animals. And fruit trees are not remotely contemporaneous in their origin with ferns or other archaic plants. Hell, if sea animals and land animals belong on different days, surely ferns and fruit trees are different "days." And why would a tree waste precious photosynthetic energy from what little sunlight can penetrate the "partially cleared atmosphere" in order to create fruit when no land animal exists to eat the fruit yet?

When Genesis says that God "made" the sun and moon and "placed" them in the sky, it does not mean that God merely made them visible from earth. Nobody interpreted those passages to mean anything other than a literal creation of the sun and the moon on the fourth day until science proved that interpretation to be incorrect.

I have no idea what general relativity theory is supposed to have to do with creation by divine fiat. He's just trying to puff up the "science of Genesis" by arbitrarily invoking the name Einstein. Wowie.

I'm jittery in anticipation of his proof of the science of talking asses and towers that reach to Heaven and women formed by the ribs of men and an ark that can hold all the animals of world!