Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Feather · 05-11-2003, 11:57 AM

Independent has the story.

Dunno what to make of this, really, since most of British politics is something I don't keep track of as deeply as I do US politics.

SLD · 05-11-2003, 07:12 PM

Interesting. In the U.S. of course there are no real gay rights work place protections (at least not federally, just in some states). Furthermore, religious discrimination is OK within a church. I.e. an atheist cannot sue a church for refusing to hire him as a minister.

However, as it applies to other quasireligious organizations such as Baptist Hospitals it is different.

SLD

Toto · 05-11-2003, 08:02 PM

This is rather frightening.

Quote:

The wording of the clause is almost identical to that submitted by the Church of England. The Archbishops' Council's submission, which was leaked to the IoS, states that an exemption should apply "to comply with the doctrines of the religion or avoid offending the religious susceptibilities of a significant number of its followers".

Other major changes to the original draft, allowing discrimination against atheists or others who do not share the religious beliefs of their employer, were made following strong lobbying from evangelical groups. One of the biggest loopholes allows an employer to dismiss or fail to hire an individual if he is "not satisfied" that they fit his own "ethos based on religion or belief".

. . .

Keith Porteous Wood of the National Secular Society said the regulations were a "witch-hunter's dream come true". "Organisations with a 'religious ethos' employ around 200,000 people, most of them in jobs paid for out of the public purse. This includes over 100,000 teaching posts in faith schools," he said. "The Government has given in to religious pressure at every stage of this process."

The American exemption is confined to religious institutions, and does not allow a private employer to impose his or her own beliefs on the company's employees.

05-13-2003, 09:05 AM

Yes. I read about this in the NSS newsletter.

The worst part of it is that in the case of church schools, which are 90 % funded by the taxpayer anyway, they may be able to discriminate against teachers and other employees on grounds of belief and sexual orientation.

I am totally incensed by the Blair Government's concessions to churches and other nut factories on this whole question of faith-based schools. It means that Vardy can make minor financial grants to set up schools that will then run on public money and that will apparently be allowed to teach creationism alongside evolution.

Never · 05-14-2003, 08:50 AM

I'm not quite understanding this phrase:
"Organisations with a 'religious ethos'"

I know that would include places like churches and such but does that also mean that if I started a restaurant there and put a sign out front stating "a Christian restaurant", that I could then legally discriminate based on religion under this legislation?

05-14-2003, 08:58 AM

The NSS is reading it that way. I'm not sure whether it's right or not.

Ninasgrandpa · 05-16-2003, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DMB
The worst part of it is that in the case of church schools, which are 90 % funded by the taxpayer anyway, they may be able to discriminate against teachers and other employees on grounds of belief and sexual orientation.

It is not true that voluntary aided church schools are 90% funded by the taxpayer.

The 90% figure refers only to the cost of the external maintenance of the school buildings. All other costs are funded 100% by the taxpayer. I think it is unlikely that external maintenance costs amount to more than 10% of the total running costs of a school, which would make the taxpayers total contribution over 99% of all costs.

Furthermore at many voluntary aided church schools, parents are requested to contribute to a fund to pay the 1% owed by the church, so the church ends up paying nothing.

Voluntary aided church schools are allowed to discriminate in the admission of pupils and the employment of staff on religious grounds.

Treacle Worshipper · 05-16-2003, 08:59 AM

Can they do this? What about the European Convention on Human Rights? Wouldn't that disallow this kind of legislation?

TW

05-11-2003, 11:57 AM	#1
Feather Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Location: Gainesville, FL Posts: 1,827	Hmmm. Interesting CSS/Gay Rights issue in Britain. Independent has the story. Dunno what to make of this, really, since most of British politics is something I don't keep track of as deeply as I do US politics.

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05-11-2003, 07:12 PM	#2
SLD Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: Birmingham, Alabama Posts: 4,109	Interesting. In the U.S. of course there are no real gay rights work place protections (at least not federally, just in some states). Furthermore, religious discrimination is OK within a church. I.e. an atheist cannot sue a church for refusing to hire him as a minister. However, as it applies to other quasireligious organizations such as Baptist Hospitals it is different. SLD

05-13-2003, 09:05 AM	#4
DMB Guest Posts: n/a	Yes. I read about this in the NSS newsletter. The worst part of it is that in the case of church schools, which are 90 % funded by the taxpayer anyway, they may be able to discriminate against teachers and other employees on grounds of belief and sexual orientation. I am totally incensed by the Blair Government's concessions to churches and other nut factories on this whole question of faith-based schools. It means that Vardy can make minor financial grants to set up schools that will then run on public money and that will apparently be allowed to teach creationism alongside evolution.

05-14-2003, 08:50 AM	#5
Never Talk Freethought Staff Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: OH Posts: 5,266	I'm not quite understanding this phrase: "Organisations with a 'religious ethos'" I know that would include places like churches and such but does that also mean that if I started a restaurant there and put a sign out front stating "a Christian restaurant", that I could then legally discriminate based on religion under this legislation?

05-14-2003, 08:58 AM	#6
DMB Guest Posts: n/a	The NSS is reading it that way. I'm not sure whether it's right or not.

05-16-2003, 08:59 AM	#8
Treacle Worshipper Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Wales, UK Posts: 931	Can they do this? What about the European Convention on Human Rights? Wouldn't that disallow this kind of legislation? TW

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