BadBadBad

x-xian,

I thought it would be good to discuss my situation in this forum because I knew I wasn't alone in what I was going through.

I feel for you. As you've probably seen, I've been having similar problems in fundie wife brainwashed kids.

If you read through the first few pages, someone gave me some verses about how she should act given the circumstances. Something along the lines of be submissive and don't divorce your husband if he will have you. That may help some, but women tend to blow off what it says about their role in the Bible. I confronted my wife about that, and she was nice for a few days, then fell back to the we're all sinners defense.

My situation is different in that she is the one to get all religious. You have the big disadvantage of shaking things all up. I've been through all the fights you're having. I can assure you this is a losing battle for you. Everything you have to say on the matter is mud on your face. You're not ever going to score any points unless she deconverts. The best you can hope for is acceptance.

Acceptance will be easier if you keep your beliefs to yourself and not say anything when she doesn't. Don't talk to her about it or the kids. The best you can get out of this is to not participate in church or church social groups. Sounds like for you that getting acceptance for that will be painful enough.

Now, you'll have to ask yourself if you can take it that way. I couldn't. Hence I'm going through all of what you are, including the threats of divorce. If you keep your mouth shut and she can accept your position, she'll now want to establish herself as the morally righteous and you will be the heathen bastard who is too hard headed to get it. That will permeate your relationship with your wife, her family, and your children to some extent. I got tired of that and the crap she's pouring on the kids, and I just couldn't take it.

That's the way my dad played it though. He didn't go to church. He never said anything to me about religion. I don't remember him arguing with my mother. His mother yes vehemently, but not mine. He supported us though when it came time to not want to go to church any more. None of us are religious now.

There are no easy answers. Remind her that other people live in mixed families and make it work. All I can suggest to you is to work on acceptance first, and try not to tackle all the other implications at once.

Ted Hoffman

xxian
You guys are breaking my heart now. I plan to be married to a xstian next year!
My Gawd! WTF?!!!
Jesus people, can't people stay married to theists any more?

I have told her I dont accept her beliefs, and she doesnt argue with that. All she wants is respect, and I respect her. I have told her, no way our kids are going to get brainwashed in church, she is okay with that. She is somewhat liberal given we are having pre-marital whatever and she doesnt attend church regularly.

Now xxian, slow down on your wife. You dont have to resolve this matter today. You have just converted. You dont expect her to convert just because you did. Give her some time.

Try to keep calm during your discussions - the kids might end up starting to take sides. Keep it quiet and rational. If she loses her temper, let her. Dont follow suit. Be the rational person in those arguments. Set the way forward.

It is you who has changed or "upset" the "set up" in your family - you started off as a good xstian family - now you have spoiled all the fun. You dont expect her to relish that now do you? No one, even you, takes change easily. Its human nature. Change is always resisted. Give her time to absorb the change before you make her be part of it. She needs readjustment, she is under pressure and maybe her church friends will blame her for your "losing the way".

Look for a compromise, this should be fairly easy given you have led a xstian life all along. Dont be too hard on her - that will just speed up divorce.

Try to get yourself a new life before you attempt assimilating your family into it. Get fun activities you will be doing on sundays, etc etc. Make a complete readjustment to your life first before bringing the rest in.

Just dont allow her to tell u what to do and what not to do.

Puck

Hi x-xian,

You wrote:
Then she insists that I am the instigator in this

Well, in a sense, you are, in that you are the one that changed your mind mid-flight, at least from where she stands. Obviously, she's in a panic right now, trying every tatic that comes to mind to get things back on the safe course she felt it was before. Since you are the one who changed the family dynamics, the burden is on you to stay calm and reassure your family that you haven't suddenly become something evil and scarey.

You both are going through *huge* changes, and no way are things going to be easy for either of you. Have some compassion for this woman you love, don't take the bait when she lashes out. Let her rant and rave if she needs to. One of the best responses I have ever learned when in heated debate are the words "I'm sorry you feel that way". Said with sincerity and love, of course. Say that with sarcasm and you reinforce her fears. Really *listen* to what she says, look her in the eyes when she is talking/yelling. Show her you are concerned that she is scared, that you care about the fact that the conclusions you have come to have hurt her so deeply. Apologize for causing her pain. That may not be right in a way, her fears are causing her pain, but be the kind one and do it.

Drop the whole divorce issue. If she keeps bringing it up, consider telling her that not only would it be immoral at this point, but it's not even up for discussion for at least a year, for you both to adjust after this big change. Then later, if she really feels a divorce is the proper thing to do, you will consider it seriously after marriage counseling. Hopefully that will remove the terror of that issue so you can concentrate on what is best for your little family's well being.

I am so happy for you that you have dropped the blinders and are learning to live life without fear of hob-gobblins. Unfortunatly, the best thing for you, *seems* to your wife to be the worse thing for her and the kids. Of course, now that you have dropped the reliance of some god to make everything alright, you must take personal responsibility for yourself and your actions. This means accepting responsibility for your part in things that go wrong, and admiting when you have been wrong. Hopefully you will find the inner strength to do this. It's human nature, it seems, to defend our actions, but none of us does every thing right every time.

Ask yourself how things look from your kids point of view at this time. Are they in their rooms, listening to the fights, shaking with the fear of divorce? Are they thinking that if Dad hadn't of changed, everything would still be alright? Will they conclude that *your* beliefs are bad because of the damage they have wrought?

You can't controll how your wife and children think and feel. You can do your best to insure that your words and actions are kind, gentle and compassionate. You don't have to give up yourself to do this.

And don't forget the power of day to day life. Help with dinner/dishes. Read to your kids at night. Tell your wife about the positive things you admire about her. Hold her hand at the store sometimes. Show your kids how to make things, a paper airplane, rubberband gun, you know.

When she brings up god, breath through it. Try to deflect the topic without denying her beliefs or yours, let her express her thoughts/ideals without debating them. You can debate here all you want, and your marriage won't be harmed. It doesn't matter if you think her world is based on fantasy, it's still her world, and she has a right to it. Let it be. Maybe in the future things will be such that you can share on a deeper level how you now feel. Meantime, share the things she doesn't want to hear with us. We aren't scared of how you feel.

{{{{{x-xian}}}}}

Splat

Hi x-xian. Welcome to enlightenment, and II.

I agree with the advice to slow down and let things cool down. Your wife's been thrown for a loop, and it's going to take awhile (years, perhaps) for her to get used to things. And yes, you've got as much right to your kids' heads as your wife does. Moreover, they have as much right to understand you as they do to understand their mother.

Mixed marriages can work out to everybody's benefit, but it takes trust and time. I suggest seeing a marriage counselor now, while things are fresh and unformed, rather than waiting until you've both gotten into ruts and built up animosities and resentments.

Good luck.

Oh yeah, one more thing:

<img src="graemlins/notworthy.gif" border="0" alt="[Not Worthy]" />

pescifish

Intensity, you know better than to come crashing into SL&S with such things. It's wonderful that your relationship with your theist girlfriend/fiance is going well; I'm sure your example will help others but you needn't be so incredulous that not everything works out exactly as your situation has done.

Please be more considerate for those looking for support here.

Nataraja

I must agree with pesci. x-xian came here asking for support and advice. Any fooling around or drifting OT really does seem rather disrespectful, at least on this kind of thread.

x-xian, if you are daring you can try to put your wife on the defensive. She's got a lot of nerve forcing you to stand by and nod in approval as she indoctrinates your children into something you don't believe in, as if you don't deserve any say in what your children are taught to believe.

On the other hand, you may be better off trying to come to a peaceful understanding .

[ November 05, 2002: Message edited by: Nataraja ]</p>

Vicar Philip

Intensity-

When I said she insists that I'm the instigator in this, I was referring solely to the whole divorce issue. I have never brought up the dissolution of our marriage and family, that has been coming from her exclusively.

Yes, I understand that I am the one who has suddenly pulled the rug out from under her, and I have tried to look at it from her point of view. But what keeps me in this atheistic frame of mind is that, bottom line, I have always had doubts about all of it. I just avoided talking about those topics with my wife, and like I too often do, just cave and don't present my view just to keep the peace.

For example, I have always believed in evolution. It makes sense. I like things that make good common sense. Creation doesn't make sense, unless you look at it from the perspective of an ancient, unscientific group of people struggling to explain why their world was the way it was. It probably made sense to them, and since most people adopt the "sheep" mentality, it has endured and somehow is blindly accepted by the majority of Christian Americans. They, like my wife, are afraid to even question its validity!! "By God," she says, "I didn't come from some damn ape!" Of course, I say neither did I, and blah blah blah blah. The fight goes nowhere.

In the meantime, tonight she informed me that she was talking to an old friend of hers (who happens to be an atheist too) and tells him that she cannot stay married to an atheist. She says there must be dozens of good Christian men who would love to raise four kids in a good Christian home!!! Gag, puke, retch. I am so tired of this bullshit.

As many of you kind folks have advised, I have been making every attempt to just avoid the subject. But, I'll look over at her, and she's staring off into space, deep in thought. When I make the mistake of asking what she's thinking about, guess what it is! Some new vile idea of hers about how awful I am for daring to "turn my back on God!" She claims that I must think I'm better than God because I deny his existence.

I'm now in the unenviable position of either: A)Lying about everything and pretending that I must have been temporarily insane, and now "Love Jesus!!" (note the glassy-eyed, blank-faced look of a True Christian (TM)); or B) Sticking to what I know is the Truth and lighting the fuse to the Divorce Time Bomb due to go off at her whim.

I think she's in for a rude awakening when she tries to find her 6 dozen Good Christian Fathers.

<img src="graemlins/banghead.gif" border="0" alt="[Bang Head]" />

HelenM

I can't believe her pastor would approve of her having this attitude. Does he know what she's going around saying?

If she truly believed the Bible, it says she can't get divorced unless you decide to leave her or unless you are unfaithful to her.

Maybe that's why she is saying it to an atheist friend - because she knows she couldn't get away with saying it at church. I hope not, anyway.

I think so too. I don't think any 'good Christian fathers' would be very impressed with her lack of commitment to her current marriage .

I apologize if it annoys you to have a theist comment. I find it very frustrating and disappointing to read how your wife, brettc's wife and MOJO-JOJO's wife are behaving. They seem to be totally wrapped up in self-pity and some "if only" dream world where there is some perfect Christian man out there, who would make all their dreams come true. Whereas they ought to be appreciating the husbands they actually have!

Intensity's beliefs are known to his GF so he's not going to run into what happened to you, x-xian - fortunately for him. However, I don't know that any atheist marrying a Christian can be sure they might not end up in a situation like brettc, where their Christian spouse suddenly gets much more serious/radical about their faith. I think children can bring about an unanticipated level of conflict, if both spouses realize they very much want to raise their children with their beliefs and values rather than their spouses.

take care
Helen

Sabine Grant

X-XIAN : Bonsoir! Maybe you both need to look for what you have in common rather than focus on the differences. I agree that doing something special for her will help a lot so she does not take your change of heart about faith so personaly.
Find a common mission or endeavor you can both be part of where she will realize that you are the same wonderful guy you were "before". That being an atheist does not make you less of a person. That you still want to make a difference in people's lives. That you are still a great dad... etc etc...
About the children... I know it is difficult. My future hubby and I do not have any children, but I have three from my previous marriage. They were raised in a christian home. He is an agnostic. They are at ages older than yours and are forming their individuality. Future hubby has the freedom of discussing his critical thinking over many topics but he always is respectful of my faith. We do not demean each other. I have come to trust that the children can and will form their own thinking and what will best fit them.
What we are both interested in is that they will always contribute to the wellbeing of others. That is our focus and commonness as a couple.
Find that commonness with your wife.
It is going to work out with more time.

Goliath

x-xian,

I'm sorry to hear about the turmoil between you and your wife.

If I were in your shoes, I would file for a divorce immediately. Why waste a single second of your life on a bigot like her?

Sincerely,

Goliath