Luiseach

I would think that Science and Rationality, not religious belief, have a better chance of achieving this goal.

Just an aside.

Starboy

emotional, your profile says you are an atheist pagan. What is that? You think like a theist. Are you one of those decietful, manipulating, lying sack-of-sh*t Christians?

Starboy

Spaz

How can you fear death? When you're dead you certainly won't realize it.

Sabine Grant

That was not necessary.

the_cave

Yeah, no doubt! (Aside to moderators: this seems worthy of a reprimand.)
Starboy, emotional has expressed some heartfelt, sincere, honest questions and feelings about problems that everyone grapples with, atheist or religious or anything in between. It has nothing to do with your evaluation of the character of Christians, and the comment was gratuitous and totally beside the point. I'm sure you have contributions to make as well, so please withold from further comments like that, thanks.

the_cave

I agree with the notion that labelling individuals "good" and "evil" is not constructive, and indeed false. But I think we can still refer to actions and behaviors as good or evil. Sure, everything is natural, but that doesn't mean we can't evaluate it. Just because we're evaluating something doesn't mean that value doesn't exist--in fact, it most assuredly exists, just as we exist! Indeed, presumably we're as real as anything else in the universe, so I can only assume that good and evil do in fact exist--because there they are, inside of us.

Maybe what you dislike, Starboy, is the notion that good and evil are somehow forces alive in the world, like the wind, or electromagnetic fields. From a certain perspective I can sympathize, but one kind of thing I would call evil is a harmful action that caused others to perpetrate harmful actions, to continue them and carry them out. Sounds like a force to me, at least in once sense of the word. Personifying it, or making it sound like a conscious entity, may be false--but treating it as real, I think, is not.

for emotional (and anyone else):

Other threads deal with the existence of good and evil, and with morals and ethics generally, so I won't go into too much more detail about those ideas here. Now i won't try and talk you into either Gnosticism or Christianity in this forum, emotional (though you're very perceptive in isolating those categories), or any other belief system, but I will encourage you to begin a path towards your answer by expanding your definition of "materialism" to include "emotions and experiences inside ourselves"--and material effects of those emotional experiences. Just because they're inside ourselves doesn't mean they don't exist! Indeed, Dawkins is wrong, in the sense that he doesn't account for our own existence--or our own participation in the universe. We exist, and we are a part of the universe; therefore, the universe is not indifferent. For every time we are not indifferent, we are an example of a universe that cares. Make sense?

Starboy

It shouldn't bother anyone who is not a decietful, manipulating, lying sack-of-sh*t Christian? Sabine are you saying that such people do not exist?

Starboy

Starboy

the_cave, it is not that I dislike the use of the word, it is that I think that using the word evil is as useless and thoughtless as using the word spirit or soul or devil. It not only oversimplifies the world but it frames the situation in a way that will almost guarantee an undesirable outcome. It is a throwback to a time when people didn’t understand their surroundings. Using it turns the situation into some epic ongoing battle between good and evil, the user then becomes by implication the good guy and those labeled evil become the bad guys. By thinking of things in these terms you blindside yourself and make it very difficult to understand the situation and determine how best to deal with it. A case in point is the use of the concept by our current president. When you label someone or something as evil or accept such a label you turn off your brain. You see, the folks on the other side are calling you evil as well. It is a useless concept, god is on no one’s side and no one is good or evil.

Starboy

Sabine Grant

I am not in the mood to butt heads with you Starboy...The Cave has made it clear to you why " it was not necessary". You can persist if you wish but IMO your comment was inappropriate and definitly not contributing to the discussion.
Hopefuly you will fix yourself a nice cup of mint tea, relax while observing your beloved stars for a moment and come back with more positive comments for emotional.

emotional

Or so was my belief when I started posting under this name. But my beliefs are always in a flux, always changing. No deception on my part, just an anachronism.