mark9950

Believe that they had a God given right to own slaves as stated from the OT and was abraham lincoln an atheist to free the slaves and call it immoral when in the OT slaves are ok to have.

meritocrat

If so, it would have made them gross hypocrites, since most them were classical liberals.

If they believed in Lockean natural rights, then they convienently forgot about the liberty of blacks, no?

Grad Student Humanist

They were gross hypocrites since none of the Founders ever advocated equality for blacks, and many of them owned slaves. Thus, when they said that all men were created equal, it is clear from their actions that they meant only white men.

However, to respond to the OP, I don't think they used the Bible to justify their slaveholding. I just think they thought of blacks as subhuman and they sure as hell didn't see anything wrong in keeping slaves since it made their lives as rich white men all that much easier.

Also, Lincoln may have been an atheist (though I doubt it). However, this has nothing to do with why he freed the slaves. In fact, the vast majority of abolitionists in the 19th century were Xtians, just more enlightened Xtians than the ones in the South who did use the Bible to justify owning slaves.

tudal

As Grad Student Humanist pointed out, back then black people were considered property, subhumans, and thus didn't share the same rights that humans enjoy.

Rusting Car Bumper

This claim is flatly ridiculous.

It is quite easy to read the founder's letters and writings and easily find that the problem's of slavery were ripe on their minds. They clearly recognized that it was a problem and that it conflicted with natural rights theory.

DC

Grad Student Humanist

The Founders, like everyone else, are to be judged by their actions, not by what they mught have thought. They drafted a government which enshrined the ideal of liberty while preserving the institution of slavery, an institution which benefited them and made their lives easier.

If, as you claim, they considered blacks to be humans with equal rights it makes them out to be even more hypocritical, not less. They talked a good game about equal rights, but had no intention of putting said ideas into practice. It wasn't until the 1960's that black Americans were finally equal citizens in the US.

Roland98

How does that contradict this:?

Louder than words (or thoughts), etc. etc.

meritocrat

It contradicts because a person who believes in the rights to life, liberty and property (or as Jefferson stated the right to pursue happiness), logically one should not advocate slavery since that violates a persons right to liberty.

Roland98

Clearly--and I'm agreeing with you here. However, DC's argument was that even if they practiced it, they realized it was wrong and spelled that out in their writings. But what GradStudent Humanist had written dealt with their actions, not whatever philosophy on slavery they may have held. It's an internal contradiction to be sure, but what I was addressing was the contradiction between posts (re-reading, I see it wasn't clear--edited it thusly).

Rusting Car Bumper

Hmm.. This is not entirely a correct reading of what I want to say.

It will take a bit to write a response and I will do so in a day or so.

Hold on. I'll get to it.

DC