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Old 12-17-2002, 06:06 PM   #61
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Because you devote your life to an organization that takes your money and uses it to make it easier for Father Brown to give little Timmy the "very special communion" in the back room?
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Old 12-17-2002, 08:04 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gemma Therese:
<strong>
Document it.
Gemma Therese</strong>
Okay. Here is galiel's post:

Quote:
So far, because of the lack of Massachusetts state laws addressing this kind of situation (believe it or not!), the Attorney General's office says they have not found anything to charge him under--yet.
The fact that he is a citizen now does not matter, since he did what he did under the Church umbrella and they are largely immune to the kind of disclosure requirements that everyone else is.

This is one of the reasons some observers think the threat to file bankrupcty (which came today in the form of blackmail, threatened if the deposition of Law was not delayed) is not real, because the Church would never want its finances exposed to bankrupcty proceedings. The last thing they want is for people to know where all the money has really gone (remember, they do not have to disclose such information the way any other not-for-profit does. They are holy, after all).

There are over 500 known cases in Massachusetts alone at the moment, and insiders say even more damaging and horrific disclosures are yet to come.

There is a not insignificant possibility that, if the noose starts to tighten around Law, that the Pope might send him to some other country (one without an extradition treaty with the US) to serve in some official capacity. He might even gain diplomatic immunity if he works directly for the Vatican.

As I posted elsewhere, Law lives in a multimillion dollar mansion, is driven around in expensive limos, and has (had?) a large staff, many of whose sole purpose is PR and press handling. No life of poverty for this man of god.
None of this presents a "fact" that Cardinal Law took a vow of poverty, or even that he should have taken such a vow.

Rather, galiel is acknowledging that Law certainly does not live a life of poverty, given his apparent wealth.

You reply:

Quote:
Rightfully so. Diocesan priests do not take a vow of poverty.
galiel, as stated, said no such thing.

Then you add:

Quote:
Get your information straight.
galiel stated no information regarding his obligation to poverty.

Furthermore, the information he presented was "straight."

You were attempting to correct a statement he did not make.

Main Entry: ar·ro·gance
Pronunciation: 'ar-&-g&n(t)s
Function: noun
Date: 14th century
: a feeling or an impression of superiority manifested in an overbearing manner or presumptuous claims
<a href="http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=arrogance" target="_blank">Merriam-Webster</a>

Judging by your defence of a statement that was never made, it is apparent that you believed galiel to be making presumptious claims re: Cardinal Law's obligations.

If you did not think that was what he was doing, you would not have commented as you did.
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Old 12-17-2002, 09:41 PM   #63
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Don't take it personally, Gal... the Catholic layity will grasp at any straws to defend their holy mother church. Even if the Pope himself came to Central Park and forced a 6 year old to "kiss the little Jesus" in front of 10,000 witnesses, they'd still blame it on the New Mass.
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Old 12-18-2002, 05:29 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gemma Therese:
<strong>

The crimes committed by the priests were reprehensible, but no more reprehensible than had they been committed by a father or step-father. And, frankly, is Law any more guilty for protecting abusive priests than the thousands of women who do not protect their children from abusive fathers / step-fathers?

I love the Catholic Chruch, but that does not mean it does not have its faults and bad apples.

Gemma Therese</strong>
The tourble is we can only see faults and cannot see anything lovable about that corrupt church.
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Old 12-18-2002, 05:39 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gemma Therese:
<strong>

Does the word "religious superior" mean anything to you? How about Catherine of Siena, Joan of Arc, or Teresa of Avila?

Gemma Therese</strong>
Moerator, Gemma keeps on making off-topic posts and trying to de-rail the topic/de-railing the topic.
If she doesn't stop some of her posts may need to be deleted.
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Old 12-18-2002, 05:41 AM   #66
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Gemma

Because I think that you suffer from a mental disease.

I call it the SWI syndrome. It means, Selective, Wilfull Ignorance.

You are probably an intelligent and well educated person but you have made a concious choice to supress your inteligence and education where your religious beliefs are concerned.

There is hope for recovery of course, but, like alcoholism, the sufferer has to want to recover.

The Admiral
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Old 12-18-2002, 05:45 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by B.Shack:
<strong>

The tourble is we can only see faults and cannot see anything lovable about that corrupt church.
</strong>
<a href="http://www.icspublications.org/images/trinity.jpg" target="_blank">Trinity</a>

<a href="http://www.icspublications.org/images/lisieux.jpg" target="_blank">Lisieux</a>

<a href="http://www.smcenter.org/images/S-DAMIEN-HANSEN.jpg" target="_blank">Damien-Hansen</a>

<a href="http://www.cakmalta.org/convmalta/india/images/kolbe.jpg" target="_blank">Kolbe</a>

[Sorry, Gemma - but the big pictures were messing stuff up. BJM]

[ December 19, 2002: Message edited by: Bree ]</p>
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Old 12-18-2002, 06:17 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by Wyz_sub10:
<strong>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So far, because of the lack of Massachusetts state laws addressing this kind of situation (believe it or not!), the Attorney General's office says they have not found anything to charge him under--yet.

</strong>
The dean of Harvard University recently made a public apology for the expulsion of gay and sexually disoriented students from its register (I think it was called the "great American gay hunt" in the article I read). This kind of discrimation was enforced from 1920 to at least the late 50's and maybe this is where the Authorney General should direct his attention. The article appeared in a Dutch gay magazine of which I do not remember the name, sorry.

I think poor Cardinal Law moved the priests around to protect both the children and the priests who themselves were victims of a very hypocratic puritan society.
 
Old 12-18-2002, 06:34 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
<strong>I think poor Cardinal Law moved the priests around to protect both the children and the priests who themselves were victims of a very hypocratic puritan society.</strong>
Amos, I'm at a loss to understand how

a) not reporting abuse cases to the police, paying off the families to avoid lawsuits, and threatening to declare the Archdiocese bankrupt if they don't back off, constitutes "protecting the children"

b) abusive priests are "victims" of anything other than their own shitty luck in getting found out.

I can understand that you love your church. I can understand that you want to protect its reputation. I can understand that you don't want to accept that a Cardinal can be a bad, immoral person. But the bottom line is that the victims here are the children. No amount of counter-accusation against the media or "society" changes that.

The Boston scandal seems very similar to the current outrage in the UK over the actions of Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, the Archbishop of Westminster. He too covered up abuse by paying off the victims and moving the priests around. In one case, he moved a paedophile to the chaplaincy of Gatwick Airport, in the hope that he wouldn't encounter children there. Unfortunately, it didn't stop the priest from re-offending, and he's now in jail. Other cases included a self-confessed abuser who was rehoused by the Church - in a street that faced onto a primary school playground.

Cardinal Murphy-O'Connor has offered many excuses for his actions - the idea that "nobody understood the obsessive nature of paedophilia at the time" (fifteen years ago?), the idea that the RC Church is facing a media witch-hunt (ha ha, pun surely not intended) - but the blame for these messes remains in the hands of the Cardinals who avoided their responsibilities.

That's why they should go; that's why the Vatican should be taking a harder line on abuse within the Church; and that's why former Catholics like me find ourselves losing any vestiges of respect we had for the Church.
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Old 12-18-2002, 06:38 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by B.Shack:
<strong>

Moerator, Gemma keeps on making off-topic posts and trying to de-rail the topic/de-railing the topic.
If she doesn't stop some of her posts may need to be deleted.</strong>
B. Shack, you took my quote out of context. Someone make the accusation that women have no positions of power within the Chruch, and I was refuting their claim.

Gemma Therese
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