Vampyroteuthis

Can anyone (Buler...anyone...) point me in the right direction to find just where in the bible homosexuality if expressly forbidden? I'm not in case anyone was wondering but I looked and I have not found anything other than some debatable references that don't expressly mention homosexuality is forbidden.

THANK YOU!!

Aimee

Dark Jedi

Your wish is my command....


I would reccomend bookmarking <a href="http://skepticsannotatedbible.com" target="_blank">The Skeptic's Annotated Bible </a>and <a href="http://www.blueletterbible.org/" target="_blank">The Blue Letter Bible.</a>

The annotated for great indexing, annotation, and cross-referencing and the Blue Letter for original text and all major translated versions in case someone tries the "That ain't what my version says!" arguement.

Specifically on homosexuality in the bible, here is <a href="http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/gay.htm" target="_blank">the Anotated Bible has to say on that.</a>

[ September 18, 2002: Message edited by: Dark Jedi because the idiot can't spell. ]

[ September 18, 2002: Message edited by: Dark Jedi ]</p>

Vampyroteuthis

Found it! What a great source of info! I'm looking for a used copy of Dennis Mckinsey's Biblical Errancy - A Reference Guide on amazon. Sounds like a great book to have on hand when talking with the "believers".

Thanks again!

Aimee

Grumpy

Some parts of it are better than others. While reading of the immorality of Biblical characters can be fun for a laugh, it doesn't prove anything. And highlighting factual errors in the Bible is pointless when arguing with literalists. The best thing about "Biblical Errancy" is its catalog of internal contradictions: either one statement is wrong or they both are, because they can't both be right.

Vampyroteuthis

Very true! I just find myself mired in disbelief when confronted with the blindly religious. I just don't understand how a logical human being can believe even a fraction of what the bible contains. While I do believe in "something" I cannot bring myself to believe a bunch of ridiculous stories written by sexist men! Who can even really say what the original text says since so many "translators" can have their own agenda and skew their interpretation. I myself am not qualified to translate so like my father used to say.....believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see! : ) Thanks for the input!

Aimee

Vinnie

Have you read more than a fraction of the Bible? I honestly don't understand how a logical person can believe a fraction of what the SAB says. The Bible certainly has errors, but not as many as the SAB.

For a somewhat evanhanded perspective on homosexuality and the Bible try religiostolerance.org

<a href="http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm" target="_blank">http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibl.htm</a>

Vinnie

davidH

akkhir,

Here is a clear verse that shows that homosexuality is forbidden.

I think that is pretty clear.

Again Leviticus 18 v 22

There can be no dispute over any of these verses - their meaning is crystal clear.


Why not? Does the idea of a God that can do miracles seem absurd to you?

They were not sexist, those where the morals that God instructs us to follow.
And why should this something that you believe in not be the God of the Bible?

The original text says exactly what the Hebrew says it means.
Sure there are probably things that we don't understand about it but that's not surprising.

Take for example the Bible being translated to Tribes out in Africa.

Now when it's written "wash me white as snow" you can't put that in because it has no meaning to those Tribes (they have no words for it). So you put in - as white as lambs wool or something to that effect.

The same can be said of the other way around - somethings that are mentioned would probably make no sense at all to us - we wouldn't understand it, but since we don't know the original meaning it's hard to get the right translation.


Anyway - I would be interested to see the internal conflicts that you say the Bible has.

Care to put a couple up? (Not loads because it would take too long to reply to them at once).

Vampyroteuthis

I actually don't place a lot of value in the bible period. I think it's nothing more than a jumble of poorly written stories created to hobble the ignorant with fear and promote the oppression of women. And if it had been "inspired by the word of god" I really don't care to associate myself with such a small minded and vindictive entity.

As for my reading the bible...I've read more than most of my church going friends but I can only tolerate so much idocy. Much the same view I have of reading comic books, only the bible is worse because of its insistance that it is a legitimate source of useful information.

Aimee

davidH

Just reading the link to the Skeptic's annointed Bible.

What a load of rubbish about Jonathan and David being Gay. !!!!

That is reading something serious into those verses - nowhere does it say he was Gay.
They were good friends. Like in Senegal it is common to see male friends walking about together holding hands. - It does not mean that they are gay, there it is a sign of a close friendship.

The same was the case with David and Jonathan - cannot believe that that was even suggested, surely the person who put that together would have more brains than that - all it does is to discredit his work.


But as for the Bible saying all that stuff about homosexuals - yes that is what it says.

It is true that homosexuality is unnatural, and it's only for the pleasure that these people get out of it.
If it wasn't for this then there's no reason why friendship wouldn't do, very close friendships where the fellow is like a brother/Father to you is ok, but as soon as sexual relationships begin - then the Bible condemns it.

But still all the verses given in the Bible don't teach us to discriminate the person who is gay - but rather to hate what they do, but still care for the person.

In the leviticus times such punishment was required - God was showing himself to be Holy and needed to show that Sin is very very serious.
The lesson was to the whole Tribe of Israel.

(interestingly I cannot think of an example off hand where an Israelite was killed for this.)

The NT teaches us to warn those involved in such things - then the decision is up to them. In no way are we to go about judging and condemning people - for that is God's job.
We're just make sure they know that what they are doing is against God's law.
Then they chose.

There is no verse that says that we should go out and cleanse the society by killing all the gays, lesbians, prostitutes etc.
Rather we are to point them to the truth - for there is a time when God's judgement is coming and we want them to be safe for their own sakes.

That is all from my perspective.

Sure you can bring up the examples of Israel killing all those in the land when ever they conquered it and God saying that was because of their sin and detestable relationships.
Yet God had given those people plenty of time to repent (in Abraham's day God told what he was going to do whenever their sin reached a level).

One thing people forget is that God is just and he will punish sin - he will give you every chance to repent but there comes a time when enough is enough and God punishes.

I am a Christian and that is how I see it.
I don't believe it is right when you see other people hassling and hurting those that are gay - Jesus never taught that - like when he rescued the prostitute.

Anyway that'll give you an idea of my attitude on this issue.

Hope some of you can post up the internal contradicts you find.
Start at the beginning if possible. =)

Cya.

ex-preacher

David,

You seem a bit inconsistent. You want to use Leviticus to show the sinfulness of homosexuality, but you don't want to use the death punishment proscribed in Leviticus. Leviticus also says that combining two types of cloth (say cotton and polyester) is sinful.

You use Jesus as an example of treating other people kindly. Do you happen to know what Jesus said about homosexuality?