Oresta

In short only serial offenders will be de-frocked. Incredibly and nobody apparently talks about the victims who might have to go through their lives with this horrible memory.

Nay, not "de-frocked". The operative word here was "dismissed." Once a priest, always one; allbeit, perhaps, no longer in charge of the youth choir.

The entire message coming out of the Vatican is a classic example of casuistry. Nobody's better at it than the princes of the Catholic Church. They've had centuries of practice. The message was exclusively about the "mistakes" (it was once called a mortal sin) made by some priests and how the church intends to handle th problem in the future. Not a word about the church's cover-up of a chronic problem within the priesthood, the illegal protection for years of known felons, or the routine practice of outright buying silence from the victims' families. Shades of the Borgias!

Skeptictank

SOME of the molestations are so old the statute of limitations might apply but the conspiracy of Church officials has been ongoing; making it a prosecutable crime. I think the same applies the endangerment. Plus if even a few molestations are prosecutable and covered up(see Boston) then the whole organization needs to be dragged into court.
Somehow though, I don't think any prosecutor who values his political future will attempt to indite a whole set of US Cardinals and bishops. But man, would I like to see 'em try!!!

kookiejar

When I watch the news and see these VERY angry Catholics demanding action, I can't help but think that maybe the Christians and the JWs are correct...the end time IS near....the end of the Catholic Church. Maybe that's just wishful thinking.

christ-on-a-stick

Inspired by this thread and disgusted by the past few days' headlines (this Bishop's council is basically deciding whether or not they will DECIDE to follow the law?!?!?!?), I wrote a letter to the editor yesterday making the following analogy (this is not verbatim of the letter's text, which is at home):
***
Consider the following scenario: A huge multi-national corporation, with locations all over the country (and world). This organization happens to be a... children's day care and after-school center for kids through high school.

After many, many complaints come to light of molestation by the various day care employees, some of the Center Directors and corporate H.Q. management admit that they knew about the cases, but decided to deal with it internally. There are some lawsuits, but no criminal prosecutions.

As the scandal widens, the corporation holds a company-wide "council" of all the Center Directors, division heads and Executive Management, presided over by the President of the company, to discuss the issue.

The council then proceeds to openly discuss the following... when we receive reports of molestations, will we report them to the authorities or not? If an employee molests one of the kids, but only once, will he be fired or only if he keeps doing it? If an employee admits to having molested a kid in the past but is really sorry and hasn't done it since, will we fire him or give him another chance?

****Anyway, I ended with the point that it's pretty clear that the populace nor law enforcement would stand by and watch this... it's ludicrous and utterly disgusting. Would anyone seeing this "council" going on ever put their kid in that child care again, knowing that the management cares more about the molester than the victim? Yet hundreds of thousands of parents all over the country/world are continuing to entrust their children to the Catholic Church when the Church is basically saying "one of our priests may molest your kid and we won't promise that he would be kicked to the curb AND turned in to the cops".

ARGHHHHHHHHHH!

Well, we'll see if it gets published.

(BTW the actual letter was better written and not nearly so ranty, I'm just in a coffee-induced, rage-fueled psychosis at the moment).

[ April 26, 2002: Message edited by: christ-on-a-stick ]</p>

sullster

What unmitigated rot! Did I say a thing about killing priests? All I say is that if a priest molests a child he should go to jail as should anyone else. The place where the molester works should not cover it up and protect the criminal. It is very simple, Amos, but you don't like simplicity in Amosland, just complex dreams and illusions.

Stop making this some American thing. The dirty priests of your cult have done these deeds in all countries. Americans are to be commended for standing up to a monolithic system of mind control.

Your priests just don't get it. The policy should be to turn any priest who molests over to the police.

When are the Middle Ages going to end in the minds of the rulers of this organization? You can't kill any heretics anymore, because you will be prosecuted for that. Now, you must not be allowed to molest children. The nihilistic moral relativism of catholicism must be countered by the reason of civil law. Jail to the molesting priests!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Zar

I'm 100% behind sullster on every point.

And I'm just aghast at the open insanity engaged in by the Holy See and the priesthood. Clearly, the Catholic Church is an encrusted, irrelevant decayed institution that can be nothing more than self-referential in this world. Imagine! The Church, the suppsoed bulwark of morality having moral circles run around it by secular government and the laity!

The whole business is corrupt, and the supposed "good" priests, who hum and haw over how this will affect the church are just accomplices. I say, let the church burn to the ground if it has to! It sets itself up ans the focal point of human meaning, one step removed from God himself, and now we get this disgraceful, subhuman behvior, totally disconnected and alienating! The only purpose of its existence is to give people hope and direction, but it now seems that it exists only for the sake of itself and its self-aggrandizement.

[ April 27, 2002: Message edited by: Zar ]</p>

Amos

Edited to add, sorry about being a skeptic but I never did believe the "incubator story" of Desert Storm nor the "antrhax scare" of Enduring freedom. I now have some reservations with Israel forever.

[ April 27, 2002: Message edited by: Amos ]

{Edited for formatting - Pantera}

[ April 29, 2002: Message edited by: Pantera ]</p>

Amos

Actually, Catholics do not considder themselves saved (unless they have protestant neigbors) and are sinners with confessionals to prove it. The flip side of the forgiveness of sin is the encouragement to sin because if a little prayer can make you whole again *it* was cheap. If this is the net effect or not is not mine to say, surely not, but I can just see how the forgiveness of sin becomes a courage builder for the courageous sinner. In Romans 7:19 it is pointed out that the Law was aimed to serve for the degradation of our bodies (through our enslavement to impurities and licentiouness).

So the Church has never been a bulwark of morality and it is probably the associated evidence that makes people think is only one step removed from God.

Goliath

This entire pedophilia scandal in the Catholic church disgusts me. If I was in charge of things (and I usually wouldn't want to be in charge of the world, but if I could enact my plan to save chilren from preists, I'd consider it), I'd do the following:

1. All priests caught molesting children would undergo mandatory castration, be imprisoned for 30-50 years, and face a fine of atleast $100,000.

2. If it is found that the preist's church tried to hide--in any way, shape, or form--the fact that the preist molested children, then the government will immediately seize the church. The government may then do what it wishes with the church (including turning the church property into a parking lot or auctioning the church off).

3. If the Vatican doesn't like the new US law, and if they try to oppose us in any way, shape, or form, then the US will form an occupation army and invade Vatican City.



Sincerely,

Goliath

Methodissed

I'll share a little of my ignorance as well. I've read that the Vatican has diplomatic immunity, which to my understanding, makes it difficult if not impossible to prosecute. The issue is further complicated because our president seeks council from the Vatican on critical issues such as stem cell research, thereby showing executive support for their status and authority.

Can anyone comment on diplomatic immunity? Just how slippery are these guys?