Freethought & Rationalism Archive

xstvn · 03-11-2003, 09:35 PM

(This article is from May 2002 , apologies if it has been covered before)

Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia and his views on the death penalty and more.

God�s Justice and Ours

Some excerpts:

Quote:

It is a matter of great consequence to me, therefore, whether the death penalty is morally acceptable. As a Roman Catholic�and being unable to jump out of my skin�I cannot discuss that issue without reference to Christian tradition and the Church�s Magisterium.

The death penalty is undoubtedly wrong unless one accords to the state a scope of moral action that goes beyond what is permitted to the individual. In my view, the major impetus behind modern aversion to the death penalty is the equation of private morality with governmental morality. This is a predictable (though I believe erroneous and regrettable) reaction to modern, democratic self�government.

Few doubted the morality of the death penalty in the age that believed in the divine right of kings. Or even in earlier times. St. Paul had this to say (I am quoting, as you might expect, the King James version):

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? Do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same: for he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. (Romans 13:1�5)

This is not the Old Testament, I emphasize, but St. Paul. One can understand his words as referring only to lawfully constituted authority, or even only to lawfully constituted authority that rules justly. But the core of his message is that government�however you want to limit that concept�derives its moral authority from God. It is the �minister of God� with powers to �revenge,� to �execute wrath,� including even wrath by the sword (which is unmistakably a reference to the death penalty).

Quote:

These passages from Romans represent the consensus of Western thought until very recent times. Not just of Christian or religious thought, but of secular thought regarding the powers of the state. That consensus has been upset, I think, by the emergence of democracy

Pause here...ummm

Quote:

It is easy to see the hand of the Almighty behind rulers whose forebears, in the dim mists of history, were supposedly anointed by God, or who at least obtained their thrones in awful and unpredictable battles whose outcome was determined by the Lord of Hosts, that is, the Lord of Armies. It is much more difficult to see the hand of God�or any higher moral authority�behind the fools and rogues (as the losers would have it) whom we ourselves elect to do our own will.

Holy shit, did you read that?

Quote:

So it is no accident, I think, that the modern view that the death penalty is immoral is centered in the West. That has little to do with the fact that the West has a Christian tradition, and everything to do with the fact that the West is the home of democracy. Indeed, it seems to me that the more Christian a country is the less likely it is to regard the death penalty as immoral. Abolition has taken its firmest hold in post�Christian Europe, and has least support in the church�going United States. I attribute that to the fact that, for the believing Christian, death is no big deal.

ugh, what century is this again?

Quote:

The reaction of people of faith to this tendency of democracy to obscure the divine authority behind government should not be resignation to it, but the resolution to combat it as effectively as possible. We have done that in this country (and continental Europe has not) by preserving in our public life many visible reminders that�in the words of a Supreme Court opinion from the 1940s��we are a religious people, whose institutions presuppose a Supreme Being.� These reminders include: �In God we trust� on our coins, �one nation, under God� in our Pledge of Allegiance, the opening of sessions of our legislatures with a prayer, the opening of sessions of my Court with �God save the United States and this Honorable Court,� annual Thanksgiving proclamations issued by our President at the direction of Congress, and constant invocations of divine support in the speeches of our political leaders, which often conclude, �God bless America.� All this, as I say, is most un�European, and helps explain why our people are more inclined to understand, as St. Paul did, that government carries the sword as �the minister of God,� to �execute wrath� upon the evildoer.

Ugh , there is more at the link

I knew Scalia was conservative but I did not know he was a religious loon who based everything on the bible
That's just fucking scary

pug846 · 03-11-2003, 10:31 PM

I think the scariest part of the entire piece is Scalia's mention that his jurisprudence would allow the State to execute someone for stealing a horse. At least he is willing to swallow the ridiculous conclusions of his judicial philosophy.

Toto · 03-12-2003, 12:56 AM

We did comment on that speech at the time, and it has lost none of its charm (or scariness.)

simian · 03-12-2003, 06:04 AM

Um, Scalia is a Catholic, isn't he? What the heck is he doing quoting from the King James Version of the Bible?

A very confused Simian

03-12-2003, 07:24 AM

I can't believe that a maniac like Scalia is sitting on our nation's highest court and poised to become chief justice. This man believes in an invisible fantasy world filled with gods, devils, demons, angels, and saints, and has the power to strike down laws and shape our country's future for decades to come.

It's almost enough to make you cry.

SanDiegoAtheist · 03-12-2003, 11:16 AM

What I found the scariest is his implied support of a despotic type absolutist leader chosen by war. What is the LOON doing on an United States Court?

Seems he believes that all battles are determined by his favorite invisible sky fairy, and tactics and strategy (not to mention sheer numbers) don't determine the vast majority of battles.

I wonder if Scalia considers Temuchin (Genghis Khan) to be a 'divinely appointed' leader...after all, he DID have the largest empire ever seen. Had nothing to do with the fact that he had superior numbers and vicious tactics though - it must've been determined by God to be that way.

:P

Gah, and THIS is Bush's favorite justice? No WONDER he acts like King George.

The San Diego Atheist

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03-11-2003, 10:31 PM	#2
pug846 Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1,587	I think the scariest part of the entire piece is Scalia's mention that his jurisprudence would allow the State to execute someone for stealing a horse. At least he is willing to swallow the ridiculous conclusions of his judicial philosophy.

03-12-2003, 12:56 AM	#3
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	We did comment on that speech at the time, and it has lost none of its charm (or scariness.)

03-12-2003, 06:04 AM	#4
simian Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: St. Louis, MO area Posts: 1,924	Um, Scalia is a Catholic, isn't he? What the heck is he doing quoting from the King James Version of the Bible? A very confused Simian

03-12-2003, 07:24 AM	#5
atheist_in_foxhole Guest Posts: n/a	I can't believe that a maniac like Scalia is sitting on our nation's highest court and poised to become chief justice. This man believes in an invisible fantasy world filled with gods, devils, demons, angels, and saints, and has the power to strike down laws and shape our country's future for decades to come. It's almost enough to make you cry.

03-12-2003, 11:16 AM	#6
SanDiegoAtheist Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: San Diego, CA, USA Posts: 281	What I found the scariest is his implied support of a despotic type absolutist leader chosen by war. What is the LOON doing on an United States Court? Seems he believes that all battles are determined by his favorite invisible sky fairy, and tactics and strategy (not to mention sheer numbers) don't determine the vast majority of battles. I wonder if Scalia considers Temuchin (Genghis Khan) to be a 'divinely appointed' leader...after all, he DID have the largest empire ever seen. Had nothing to do with the fact that he had superior numbers and vicious tactics though - it must've been determined by God to be that way. :P Gah, and THIS is Bush's favorite justice? No WONDER he acts like King George. The San Diego Atheist

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