VivaHedone

Merely for the purposes of discussion, I am going to claim to accept that the bible is the word of 'God'.

Does this mean that religion is proved correct? Not at all.

Firstly, what Christians claim to be God's attributes are only claimed to be so because that is what it says in the bible. The bible is the word of God. Therefore Christians' "knowledge" of God arises from what God himself has told them. Now, how dop they know that god is telling the truth about his omniscience, omnipotence and benevolence? Do they just take his word for it? How do they know that, rather than being good and therefore telling the truth, God is not bad and therefore lying?

Secondly, what right would God have to tell us how to live our lives? To have any right to expect us to obey his seemingly illogical rules, God would have to justify them in the Bible from a philisophical point of view. Either that, or prove his omniscience and benevolence, as then we would know that what he was telling us was right.

Thirdly, if God refuses to justify or prove the veracity of his word, what right does he have to punish us for refusing to unquestionably obey his word? How could a good God punish people for not believing in him, when he has no right to their belief?

Christians may claim it is all down to 'faith', which seems to me to be a mere triumph blind hope over reason, but what right would God have to expect us to have faith in him?

Why would a good God, who would want everyone to live good lives, give us the ability to reason and then make belief in him contrary to that very rationality he has bestowed upon us?

If I were to tell you that I was omniscient, omnipotent and benevolent, would I have any right to expect you to believe me without proof? No. If I demanded that you have faith in me rather than me providing proof, would you be obliged to give me that faith? No. Would I have the right to lay down a set of rules and, without justifying them, demand that you obey them? No. Would I have the right, if you refuse to belief me and follow my rules, to subject you to eternal torture? No.

Yet this is what God does in the bible. If these principals are accepted, then anyone could claim to be God, and punish all 'non-believers' however they liked. It wouldn't matter how unproven the claim was, because they could just say that the logical flaws are a test of 'faith'.

Even if God did create us, this changes nothing. We are all created by our parents, yet they have no right to rule our lives forever or claim that they are omnipotent etc.

Tom Sawyer

The Bible says that it is the True Word of God (tm)

Therefore, if the Bible is the True Word of God, we can trust that it is the True Word of God, because the True Word of God says that it is.

God gets to tell us how to live our lives because He is the one who defines what is good and what is not good. The justification of something being good is God saying that it is good - there is no other criteria, so nothing else to justify. We know this to be the case because the True Word of God says that it is (see above).

God has proved the veracity of his word by stating it in the Bible, which is true on account of it being the True Word of God (see above). If we choose not to pay attention to this, it is our own fault and we're the ones who have decided to go to hell rather than follow what he's clearly told us to do. Since we are the ones who have made that choice, we shouldn't really be blaming Him. If we have trouble figuring out exactly what he is trying to say (do to our own imperfections and not through any fault of His) then he has given us representatives who will gladly tell us what he is saying for a meager 10% cut of our income (that's 10% gross, not net, BTW).


He made everything very clear in the True Word of God (see above) and if we choose to use silly concepts like evidence and reason instead of that, it's really our own fault and we shouldn't be blaming Him.

The Lord moves in mysterious ways. I know this because the True Word of God says He does

Of course I wouldn't believe you, you've got nothing to back up what you're saying. God, on the other hand, has the True Word of God (see above)

Bree

:notworthy

It's funny: lots of other religious texts say they are the True Word of God, too. Does this make them right? If not, what makes the Bible "right" and the others "wrong" if both of them quantify themselves? I never seem to get a straight answer - I wonder why?

Rhaedas

This is most effective if said quickly and loudly while sticking your fingers in your ears, with your eyes closed tightly.

Especially if someone is trying to present you with heretical evidence to the contrary.

Tom Sawyer

Bree,

It's very simple. The Bible says that it is true, so the Bible is true. The Bible says nothing about the Koran, for instance, being true and there are parts of the Koran that suggest that the Bible isn't true, so we can assume that the Koran is false.

Now, since the Koran is saying that it too is the True Word of God (which is patently false, since that would contradict the True Word of God as laid out in the Bible), I think it's safe to assume that the Koran was written by Satan and the Muslims are a bunch of godless heathens who are almost as bad as those dirty atheists. Fortunately, the Great Leader has already realized this and launched the 4th Crusade to deal with the situation.

VivaHedone

lol - I can see that I'm preaching to the converted! Any Christians out there want to have a go at answering my questions?

VivaHedone

Further to this point, what right would he have to punish us for not believeing in him? Is it my fault that I do not believe in him? No. I assess the evidence and reach a conclusion. Even if wanted to believe in God, I could not, because I do not control my thoughts. So how could He punish us for something that is not our fault, especially if he is good and loving?

Majody

So you're saying this:

1. The bible says nothing about the Koran.
2. The Koran says something about the bible.
3. therefore, the Koran is false.

Am I missing something? This just sounds rediculous. And to quote some bad guy from a Steven Seagal movie, "Assumption is the mother of all f*** ups."


If I say "I am God," then I am God, because I said I am God.

VivaHedone

Didn't you read this bit Majody?

Quite possibly humour - TS's post are intended as a satire of religion and not a defence of it.

Majody

Ha! Thanks for clearing that up. I was starting to worry. I was beginning to think Tom either had the IQ of a radish or was a very sad, strange little man.