A Pumpkin Drifter

The first commandment is: "You shall have no other gods before me." (New King James Version).

Also in Exodus 23:20 God orders the Israelites (right?) to drive the Hittites and the other "ites" out of their land and says: "You shall not bow down to their gods, nor serve them, nor do according to their works; but you shall utterly overthrow them and completely break down their sacred pillars." Throughout the verses 20-33 under chapter 23, God often says that the Israelites (right?) shall not pray to or acknowledge the "ites" gods.

Does this then mean that the Christian god is acknowledging the existence of other deities besides himself?

And if he is just referring to the Hittites gods as fake and superstitious, why does he not come out and say they are fake, so that he has to keep warning them of not worshiping our "making a covenant" with their deities?

lpetrich

That extended to early Xian theologians, many of whom believed that pagan deities existed, but were really demons.

CX

Most certainly. The current evidence suggests that the early precursors to the Israelites were polytheistic. Certainly there was a contingent of Yahwists that also worshipped Asherah as an inscription has been found apparently referring to Asherah as Yahweh's consort. Biblical archaeologists like Israel Finkelstein have suggested that there was no distinct Israelite culture analogous to the wandering Hebrews of the OT and that the Israelites actually derived from indigenous Canaanite peoples (and others) perhaps those living on the periphery of society in the ancient Levant.

It has been speculated that Judaism absorbed the concept of monotheism from the Perso-Iranian religion of Zoroastrianism during the Babylonian captivity. One could reasonably conclude that the continual references to the Jews worshiping false gods in the OT derives from some kind of conflict between what Finkelstein calls a "Yahwist Only" faction and polytheistic practices within their own culture.

We should also recall that ancient monotheism is not equivalent to the monotheism of modern Abrahamic religion. In antiquity those few cultures that were monotheistic did not reject that other gods existed only that their god alone was to be worshipped and had dominion over the universe. The idea of only one god existing is largely a product of relatively recent (i.e. last few millenia) developments in various of the worlds religions, but mostly the Abrahamic ones (Judaism, Xianity and Islam). It was a long process of development from many competing gods to one god above other gods to one god and a cabal of demonic demigods to just one god (with perhaps minor demonic entities doing Satan's bidding).

The farther back you go in the OT the more evident other gods become.

Reldas of Melchezidec

Greetings Drifter and Ipe,


So very true! Justin Martyr, one of the first greek platonists to become a Yeshuite, wrote extensive apologetics to Roman emperor Emperor Antoninus Pius, and then to Marcus Arelius and the senate, featureing some of these "demi-god" views. It was becomeing very popular at the time to blame problems in the empire on enlightened and hapless sects such as the Stoics, Pythagoreans, but mostly the Yeshuites. One thinks that Martyr was attempting to make a distinguishment between his own sect and other politically dangerous god-loving cults in history.
Its a good read if any one wants to dig it up
look more here: <a href="http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/justin.html" target="_blank">http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/justin.html</a>

semyaza

The Old Testament refers to the Canaanite pantheon on a number of occasions. Psalm 82:1, for example, reads 'God takes his stand in the divine assembly, surrounded by the gods he gives judgement.' (NJB) Although conservative scholars have invented any number of excuses for this passage, we know from Ugaritic literature that the 'divine assembly' is a reference to the pantheon. El (God) was the father of the gods in Canaanite mythology.

Genesis 6:2-4 refers to the "sons of God". These were not angels, as the Fundamentalists insist, but were quite literally the Sons of God. The same phrase is found in Job 1:5-6 and 38:7.

Possibly the most telling passage on this subject is Deuteronomy 32:8-9. This passage has been severly distorted over time (for obvious reasons) but scholars have been able to reconstruct the original text from ancient manuscripts. It reads thus:

'When the Most High gave the nations each their heritage, when he portioned out the human race, he assigned the boundaries of the nations according to the number of the sons of God. But Yahweh's portion was his people, Jacob was to be his inheritance' (paraphrased from the NJB). This piece is important for at least two reasons: it backs up the meaning of other passages which indicate that each nation had its own tribal god (assigned by El, the Father of the gods to his sons), and it also implies that Yahweh and El (El Elyon - the Most High God) were distinct gods. (This passage is thought to be among the oldest in the Pentateuch).

So, yes, the Bible acknowledges other gods, and it does so quite unambiguously.

CX

Welcome to II and to BC&A. FYI your reference above is to a site developed and maintained by our very own Peter Kirby who is a moderator of this forum.

doodad

There is reference to other gods in the OT, particularly the idols and other tangible faith objects. Does a deity have to be supernatural? I don't think so.

There are fundamentalist Christians who do not believe that the God of Christianity is also the god of Judaism (Jehovah) and the god of Islam (Allah). It appears to me that this god you personify is actually a concept of mankind that is portrayed in human form in the bible. Personifying God makes for easy conversation but it missess the point you are really trying to convey. If the Christian god were an object, such as an idol, then we could speak of it in terms of an object, but since it's a supernatural entity the best we can do is to speak of it as a concept or a belief, a figment of the imagination. That being the case, then how can a belief or a concept acknowledge anything?

A Pumpkin Drifter

Well hmmmmm, can't a belief or concept encompass such things as other deities existing?

CX

Sure it can. Take a look at the Hindus, they have upwards of like 10,000 gods and everyone worships a different one. It just that isn't what modern Xian monotheism is about. According to their dogma there are no other gods.