Jove

So, *ahem*

Can you guys tell me how well this argument pans out?

So, Lucy rebelled, was sent to Earth, tempted A & E, yada yada.

Well, Lucy must've tempted A&E with God's consent. I mean, God could've destroyed Lucy after his failed rebellion.

I would think the typical Christian rebuttal to this is "God wanted to test A & E's free will. He didn't want robots."

But, if Lucy was able to rebel without temptation, then wouldn't it be possible for humans to sin *without* tempation as well?

So, eventually, humans would sin because of their free will, right? I mean, that's a highly reasonable assumption, innit?

Ergo, if God were to create humans with free will, sin would inevitably enter the world even without temptation, leading to death, suffering, war, pain, Hell, etc, etc.

Right?

If this argument is valid, what do you think are the possible implications?

wade-w

Just a little nitpick, but I think you mean "valid", not "sound". For an argument to be sound, it must first be valid, and the premises must be true. I seriously doubt many people here are going to grant that your premises are actually true.

And if the argument is sound, then god is a sadistic monster, but we knew that already.

Jove

Well, yeah. That's what I meant. Danke.

Wiploc

The traditional Christian answer is that god wanted to make the best of all possible universes, so he arranged the Fall because a universe in which Christ makes a great sacrifice to rescue unworthy people from Hell is better (more glorious for god) than a universe in which Christ doesn't get to make that sacrifice because people never became unworthy.
crc

Jove

How exactly would that be better?

I mean, a perfect world should be more glorious to God than an imperfect one.

Wiploc

That would be better if you happen to be a preening glory-hound of a god with badly warped values. If, instead, you happen to be human, well, it sucks to be human.
crc

Jove

I still don't get it, even by human logic. IMO, that's kind of a copout argument. Like "mysterious ways".

Either way, it makes Jehovah out to be a horrible bastard.

wildernesse

I kept thinking Lucy in the OP was our dear friend, Lucy the Australopithecus afarensis. God sent Lucy to Earth to tempt Adam and Eve? Great googly-moogly!

--tibac

Llyricist

The entirety of Genesis and Exodus makes Jehova out to be a horrible psychotic bastard, so what's your point?

Jove

Point taken.