Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Godless Dave · 04-25-2002, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PopeInTheWoods:

Don't we have RICO (Racketeer Influenced and CORRUPT ORGANIZATIONS) laws to go after groups like this?

We do indeed:

<a href="http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020419/ap_wo_en_ge/us_church_abuse_racketeering_2" target="_blank">Man sues Vatican, Catholic leaders under racketeering law</a>

[ April 25, 2002: Message edited by: Godless Dave ]

Queen of Swords · 04-25-2002, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Bree:

EEW - my question would be "who kissed this thing before me?"

The altar boy?

Egoinos · 04-25-2002, 11:42 AM

...has never really fancied kissing a man's ring...

*nudge, nudge, wink, wink*

sullster · 04-25-2002, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos:


Well you have to admid that that is hard on the shepherd/sheep image.

This is not a time for funny stuff on this issue. The Catholic Church is covering up crimes and making excuses. Child molestation is a crime!!!!!! If you do it once it is a crime. If you do it 25 times, it is a crime that you have done 25 times. What is this crap about only reporting "notorious priests". What if your child was abused by that priest who only "did it once"? You would want the bastard's head on a stick! I know damn well that I would!

I have said before that at its foundation, the church is a nilisitic organization which stands for nothing, except its own perpetuation. That it would allow its clergy to be protected from prosecution, that all other members of society would face if they committed such acts, is an abomination. The catholic church is an amoral institution. Period!

bonduca · 04-25-2002, 01:51 PM

Does anyone know if there is still supposed to be a shortage of priests? If so, the Catholic Church will be reluctant to oust any but the most shameless repeat offenders.

Pomp · 04-25-2002, 02:10 PM

Skeptictank,

Excuse my legal ignorance, but isn't what the church did in the US a crime?

I've been wondering the same thing ever since this whole fiasco entered the public eye. Why are they allowed to decide when they want to obey the law?

Mochaloca · 04-25-2002, 04:29 PM

Pompous Bastard asked "Why do they get to decide when to obey the law?

From what I have heard, it's that the cases are so old, the prosecution has problems with the statute of limitations.

Also, on the one hand, you have the priests who actually commit the crime being unlikely to turn themselves in. As for the priests who find out after the fact, to date they have no legal duty to report the allegations to the police. Currently, legislatures are trying to make that part of the law. However, this doesn't answer the question of why the victims or their families don't report directly to the police when the incidents occur. Or, if they do, why police investigations haven't resulted in more convictions.

Part of the problem could be that there is currently a penitent/priest privilege. That is, the law cannot require a priest to testify as to what someone told them in confession.

This only deals with criminal prosecution, it certainly doesn't explain why the church engaged in covering up these incidents for the past few decades.

What I can't understand is why this is "suddenly" a crisis. This cover up has been known to the public for many years. I find it amusing that the incident with Sinead O'Connor (where she tore up a picture of the pope on Saturday Night Live) has not been brought up now that this stuff is all over the news. Her justification was the fact that the Pope already knew about the molestations and did absolutely nothing. This was over five years ago, IIRC. (Too bad she went crazy & became a priest herself).

IMHO, I believe the Catholic Church should be abolished. Or at the very least, the Americans should break away from the Vatican, get rid of the "infallibility of the pope" nonsense, and elect an American Pope.

Ciao, M.

04-25-2002, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sullster:


The Catholic Church is covering up crimes and making excuses. Child molestation is a crime!!!!!!
snip/

What if your child was abused by that priest who only "did it once"? You would want the bastard's head on a stick! I know damn well that I would!

Slow down sullster. You can't just go around killing people for fondling. On the other hand, if Americans think they should they probable will and that will be their decision.

Thor Q. Mada · 04-25-2002, 05:39 PM

It is really unbelievable isn't it?? When you are a priest, and one time offender, you will get another job. But when you are a schoolteacher, and only suspected of pedophilia, you are immediately suspended and your professional life is over.
In short only serial offenders will be de-frocked. Incredibly and nobody apparently talks about the victims who might have to go through their lives with this horrible memory.

Bree · 04-25-2002, 08:07 PM

Did anyone see The Daily Show with Jon Stewart tonight? They had this guy who wrote a book about the history of the Catholic Church making commentary about the recent scandal. Apparently he believes that the reason so much molestation took place is because the Church is becoming too liberal, and therefore molestation is becoming acceptable. He stated that once the Church gets back to the original, dogmatic rule (conservative rule) then the molestation would stop and the situation would improve.

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04-25-2002, 11:42 AM	#23
Egoinos Regular Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Edinburgh Posts: 423	...has never really fancied kissing a man's ring... nudge, nudge, wink, wink

04-25-2002, 01:51 PM	#25
bonduca Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: . Posts: 1,653	Does anyone know if there is still supposed to be a shortage of priests? If so, the Catholic Church will be reluctant to oust any but the most shameless repeat offenders.

04-25-2002, 02:10 PM	#26
Pomp Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Indianapolis area Posts: 3,468	Skeptictank, Excuse my legal ignorance, but isn't what the church did in the US a crime? I've been wondering the same thing ever since this whole fiasco entered the public eye. Why are they allowed to decide when they want to obey the law?

04-25-2002, 04:29 PM	#27
Mochaloca Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: California Posts: 56	Pompous Bastard asked "Why do they get to decide when to obey the law? From what I have heard, it's that the cases are so old, the prosecution has problems with the statute of limitations. Also, on the one hand, you have the priests who actually commit the crime being unlikely to turn themselves in. As for the priests who find out after the fact, to date they have no legal duty to report the allegations to the police. Currently, legislatures are trying to make that part of the law. However, this doesn't answer the question of why the victims or their families don't report directly to the police when the incidents occur. Or, if they do, why police investigations haven't resulted in more convictions. Part of the problem could be that there is currently a penitent/priest privilege. That is, the law cannot require a priest to testify as to what someone told them in confession. This only deals with criminal prosecution, it certainly doesn't explain why the church engaged in covering up these incidents for the past few decades. What I can't understand is why this is "suddenly" a crisis. This cover up has been known to the public for many years. I find it amusing that the incident with Sinead O'Connor (where she tore up a picture of the pope on Saturday Night Live) has not been brought up now that this stuff is all over the news. Her justification was the fact that the Pope already knew about the molestations and did absolutely nothing. This was over five years ago, IIRC. (Too bad she went crazy & became a priest herself). IMHO, I believe the Catholic Church should be abolished. Or at the very least, the Americans should break away from the Vatican, get rid of the "infallibility of the pope" nonsense, and elect an American Pope. Ciao, M.

04-25-2002, 05:39 PM	#29
Thor Q. Mada Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Asia Posts: 3,558	It is really unbelievable isn't it?? When you are a priest, and one time offender, you will get another job. But when you are a schoolteacher, and only suspected of pedophilia, you are immediately suspended and your professional life is over. In short only serial offenders will be de-frocked. Incredibly and nobody apparently talks about the victims who might have to go through their lives with this horrible memory.

04-25-2002, 08:07 PM	#30
Bree Veteran Member Join Date: May 2001 Location: Twin Cities, USA Posts: 3,197	Did anyone see The Daily Show with Jon Stewart tonight? They had this guy who wrote a book about the history of the Catholic Church making commentary about the recent scandal. Apparently he believes that the reason so much molestation took place is because the Church is becoming too liberal, and therefore molestation is becoming acceptable. He stated that once the Church gets back to the original, dogmatic rule (conservative rule) then the molestation would stop and the situation would improve.

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