Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Half-Life · 12-03-2002, 12:02 PM

I have recently watched a video which showed of the Eucharistic miracles in Lunciano, Italy. A priest had doubts about his faith, and the Eucharist turned to flesh. When they took the blood to be tested, they found it was still very fresh blood, but it was dated to be 1300 years old. normal human blood starts to turn an ugly color and get all dried up after about 15 mins if it is not refrigerated. This blood didn't. It was still perfect but yet dated to be 1300 years old. How is this possible? This miracle happened in 700 A.D. If you wanna research it yourself, find by me.

Amie · 12-03-2002, 12:05 PM

I believe in miracles however I have not heard of this one...

Bumble Bee Tuna · 12-03-2002, 12:32 PM

Gotta love those 700 A.D. dating techniques and videocameras...

Grumpy · 12-03-2002, 01:44 PM

I take it you watched a video about a Eucharistic miracle alleged to have taken place around A.D. 700. Some of the blood from that miracle has been preserved through the centuries, tested recently, and despite its fresh appearance is aged 1300 years.

Here's <a href="http://www.concernedcatholics.org/miracles.htm" target="_blank">one account</a> of the tale. <a href="http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html" target="_blank">Another here</a>. Google for "Lanciano."

The tests from 1981 confirm that it is human tissue. Perhaps I'm just cynical, but I wonder how they prevented any substitution hocus-pocus. That is, I don't see any dating technique to show 1300-year-old blood, and not a recent substitution.

Strange how this and the Shroud make out Jesus as blood type AB. Such a generous guy I'd peg as type O -- the universal donor.

[ December 03, 2002: Message edited by: Grumpy ]

Half-Life · 12-03-2002, 02:29 PM

The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood.

The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species.

The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.

In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium.

The Flesh is a "HEART" complete in its essential structure.

The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin).

In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of the fresh normal blood.

In the Blood there were also found these minerals: chlorides, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium.

The preservation of the Flesh and of the Blood, which were left in their natural state for twelve centuries and exposed to the action of atmospheric and biological agents, remains an extraordinary phenomenon.

Do these things make it sound like the flesh is just from humans? or does this not suggest divine presence?

Mageth · 12-03-2002, 02:36 PM

Your description suggests a large dose of gullibility to me.

Mageth · 12-03-2002, 02:43 PM

And also sugggests a bit of uncredited plagarizing as well. Most of your last post was quoted verbatim from <a href="http://www.cmns.mnegri.it/miracolo/shortdesc.html" target="_blank">this site</a> or another site containing the same material.

[ December 03, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]

Zadok001 · 12-03-2002, 02:43 PM

Eh, please. Let me get this straight. In 700 AD, a priest found his Eucharist had turned to flesh of some sort, along with blood. This flesh was tested in 1981, and was found to be fresh?

That's absurd, and it's relatively obvious what happened. El switcheroo.

Mageth · 12-03-2002, 02:45 PM

If you do a little research, you'll find that the flesh is not "fresh" by any stretch of the imagination. (Go to the link I posted, for example).

[ December 03, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]

Fiach · 12-03-2002, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Half-Life:
The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood.

The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species.

[Fiach] What is the evidence of that? Did they do a DNA profile? If it is still "fresh" why doesn't it clot and degrade like real blood?

The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart.

[Fiach] Unless this tissue is perfused by pumping action of oxygen carrying blood, it dies in a matter of minutes. If it appears to be unchanged, then it probably is not living tissue but some kind of gel or other material not biodegradable.

In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium.

[Fiach] It doesn't make sense for it to stay live without blood perfusion by pump action and the equivalent of lungs to oxygenate that blood. It simply doesn't make sense.

The Flesh is a "HEART" complete in its essential structure.

[Fiach] Sorry, I don't believe it. I would have to have the independent examination by a team of secular pathologists and pathophysiologists.

The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin).

[Fiach] The last I read, the Shroud of Turin was proved a fraud. There wasn't blood on it. If this other claim is of real blood, let them send it to some eminent hematologists to study its composition and DNA profile. A blood sample from a bleeding Christ's statue in Mexico, was found to be "female" blood with two X chromosomes.

In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of the fresh normal blood.

[Fiach] Wrong. If so, then the fibrinogen and other proteins would naturally clot. Enzymes (also proteins) would then break it down into something that looks like crankcase oil.

In the Blood there were also found these minerals: chlorides, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium.

[Fiach] Also found in sea water to a similar concentration and in tap water in weaker concentrations.

The preservation of the Flesh and of the Blood, which were left in their natural state for twelve centuries and exposed to the action of atmospheric and biological agents, remains an extraordinary phenomenon.

[Fiach] Right. It should not happen. It requires that one postulate magic. Magic remains yet to be proven. No independent reputable scientist has verified your claim. As a molecular geneticist, I would have likely heard of such evidence. I would be happy to examine it in my lab in Aberdeen, Scotland, UK.

Do these things make it sound like the flesh is just from humans? or does this not suggest divine presence?

[Fiach] It represents an extraodinary claim that is unsupported by any independent examiners. We don't know if the claim is true or not. To speculate if it is the work of a hypothetical god is premature as long as the claim is suspicious.

Fiach

12-03-2002, 12:02 PM	#1
Half-Life Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A place in the Northern Hemisphere of Planet Earth Posts: 1,250	Do the eucharistic miracles prove the eucharist is Jesus' body? I have recently watched a video which showed of the Eucharistic miracles in Lunciano, Italy. A priest had doubts about his faith, and the Eucharist turned to flesh. When they took the blood to be tested, they found it was still very fresh blood, but it was dated to be 1300 years old. normal human blood starts to turn an ugly color and get all dried up after about 15 mins if it is not refrigerated. This blood didn't. It was still perfect but yet dated to be 1300 years old. How is this possible? This miracle happened in 700 A.D. If you wanna research it yourself, find by me.

12-03-2002, 01:44 PM	#4
Grumpy Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Alaska, USA Posts: 1,535	I take it you watched a video about a Eucharistic miracle alleged to have taken place around A.D. 700. Some of the blood from that miracle has been preserved through the centuries, tested recently, and despite its fresh appearance is aged 1300 years. Here's <a href="http://www.concernedcatholics.org/miracles.htm" target="_blank">one account</a> of the tale. <a href="http://www.therealpresence.org/eucharst/mir/lanciano.html" target="_blank">Another here</a>. Google for "Lanciano." The tests from 1981 confirm that it is human tissue. Perhaps I'm just cynical, but I wonder how they prevented any substitution hocus-pocus. That is, I don't see any dating technique to show 1300-year-old blood, and not a recent substitution. Strange how this and the Shroud make out Jesus as blood type AB. Such a generous guy I'd peg as type O -- the universal donor. [ December 03, 2002: Message edited by: Grumpy ]</p>

12-03-2002, 02:43 PM	#7
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	And also sugggests a bit of uncredited plagarizing as well. Most of your last post was quoted verbatim from <a href="http://www.cmns.mnegri.it/miracolo/shortdesc.html" target="_blank">this site</a> or another site containing the same material. [ December 03, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

12-03-2002, 02:45 PM	#9
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	If you do a little research, you'll find that the flesh is not "fresh" by any stretch of the imagination. (Go to the link I posted, for example). [ December 03, 2002: Message edited by: Mageth ]</p>

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12-03-2002, 12:05 PM	#2
Amie Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: New York Posts: 1,626	I believe in miracles however I have not heard of this one...

12-03-2002, 12:32 PM	#3
Bumble Bee Tuna Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Middletown, CT Posts: 7,333	Gotta love those 700 A.D. dating techniques and videocameras...

12-03-2002, 02:29 PM	#5
Half-Life Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: A place in the Northern Hemisphere of Planet Earth Posts: 1,250	The Flesh is real Flesh. The Blood is real Blood. The Flesh and the Blood belong to the human species. The Flesh consists of the muscular tissue of the heart. In the Flesh we see present in section: the myocardium, the endocardium, the vagus nerve and also the left ventricle of the heart for the large thickness of the myocardium. The Flesh is a "HEART" complete in its essential structure. The Flesh and the Blood have the same blood-type: AB (Blood-type identical to that which Prof. Baima Bollone uncovered in the Holy Shroud of Turin). In the Blood there were found proteins in the same normal proportions (percentage-wise) as are found in the sero-proteic make-up of the fresh normal blood. In the Blood there were also found these minerals: chlorides, phosphorus, magnesium, potassium, sodium and calcium. The preservation of the Flesh and of the Blood, which were left in their natural state for twelve centuries and exposed to the action of atmospheric and biological agents, remains an extraordinary phenomenon. Do these things make it sound like the flesh is just from humans? or does this not suggest divine presence?

12-03-2002, 02:36 PM	#6
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	Your description suggests a large dose of gullibility to me.

12-03-2002, 02:43 PM	#8
Zadok001 Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Two Steps Ahead Posts: 1,124	Eh, please. Let me get this straight. In 700 AD, a priest found his Eucharist had turned to flesh of some sort, along with blood. This flesh was tested in 1981, and was found to be fresh? That's absurd, and it's relatively obvious what happened. El switcheroo.

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