CX

Genesis 11 talks about the home land of Abram, Haran et al and refers to it thusly:

Genesis 11:31
Now I apologize because I am not well versed in Judaica, but it seems to me that Abraham's alleged migration to Canaan takes place near the end of the 3rd millienium (circa 2100 B.C.E.). At that time it was the Akkadians who ruled Mesopotamia. The Chaldeans do not emerge until nearly 15 centuries later near the end of the 7th century B.C.E.

Is this an anachronism resulting from the writer of this passage having written it in the 7th century when the Chaldeans were in power?

[ July 31, 2002: Message edited by: CX ]</p>

Jayhawker Soule

That or gloss.

Kosh

Most likely. I'll look at TBU tonight. Don't remember if it was discussed.

[ July 31, 2002: Message edited by: Kosh ]</p>

CX

Already looked, albeit briefly, didn't see it mentioned.

Marduk

It could be an error in the English translation, how is it written in the original Hebrew?

GarColga

The Chaldeans did not appear in history until they showed up in Babylonian territory about 1200 BC and opposed the Assyrians. The first historical mention of Chaldeans is in Assyrian records from the 9th century BC. The Chaldean Nabopolassar conquered Nineveh in 626 BC and established the Neo-Babylonian empire, also called the Chaldean kingdom, which included Ur. His son was Nebuchadnezzar.

The ruins of Ur indicate that it existed already at least 3,000 BC but the reference in Genesis to "Ur of the Chaldees" is an anachronism, since it could not possibly have been called that in Abraham's day (or even in Moses' day). This is an indication that Genesis in it's present form is a product of the Exile or Post-Exile period.

This information can be found in Funk & Wagnall's New Bible Dictionary and the Encyclopedia Brittanica, articles "Chaldea" and "Ur".

CX

Kasidim I think. Anyway it is used all over the OT to refer to the Babylonians. As far as I know Kasidim is properly translated as "Chaldeans" or "Chaldees". The Hebrew/English bible online translates it as "Chaldees".

Kosh

Well, that's one more nail. Has anybody seen my hammer?

CX

How about this?

The traditional dating for Genesis is around 1445 B.C.E. The Chaldeans are first mentioned in Assyrian records around 900 B.C.E. Archaeologists hypothesize that the Chaldeans first emerged around 1200 B.C.E. even taking this earliest date that is nearly 250 years after Genesis was supposedly written down by Moses and almost a millenia after the events depicted in Gen 11.

Marduk

"Kasidim I think. Anyway it is used all over the OT to refer to the Babylonians. As far as I know Kasidim is properly translated as "Chaldeans" or "Chaldees". The Hebrew/English bible online translates it as "Chaldees"."

OK, I thought it may have been "Shinar" as in Ur of Shinar (Sumer)
Then again in 1450 BCE Sumer was gone to, taken over by Akkadians who were Semites as opposed to the original non Semetic Sumerians. (another strike)

[ August 01, 2002: Message edited by: marduck ]</p>