KidFury

Were you making it up? did you feel guilty for it?

Treacle Worshipper

I certainly wasn't consciously making it up. I genuinely thought it was a gift from god at the time. That was what was so freaky about finding out I was speaking Quenya. (Actually, that was one of the minor things that led to me questioning Xianity.)

No, I didn't feel guilty about it, I had no reason to. Just very, very confused, at the time.

My current idea is that speaking in tongues is like a form of meditation - you access parts of the brain that you don't normally access consciously. I can still do that if I want to, altho' I probably speak fluent gibberish most of the time

TW

copernicus

The phenomenon is known as glossolalia, and you really should read Treacle Worshipper's link on it. It is a well-known linguistic phenomenon, and it has been recorded and carefully studied by some linguists. It is, quite simply, gibberish. Those who engage in glossolalia seem to use only the phonemes (basic speech sounds) of their own language sprinkled with a few sounds that they typically associate with foreign languages. For example, English-speaking glossolalists will trill their r's but they never use the kinds of exotic sounds that actually occur in real languages that they are unfamiliar with--for example, imploded stops (Vietnamese), back unrounded vowels (Estonian), tone languages (Chinese), or stress-pitched languages (Japanese, Serbo-Croatian). In other words, glossolalia is exactly what you would expect from people who are not speaking a real foreign language, but attempting to mimic one.

That's not to say that glossolalists are intentionally deceiving others. Self-delusion is dihonesty with oneself, not with others.

Clara Listensprechen

Ahhhh, this explains a LOT...

I'm gonna have to reply to your post in sections because this chingaderra software logs me out in the middle of replying if I take to long and I don't know why it does that. It stinks, but here goes...

One of my favorite challenges to Catholics and, conversely, to the tonguespeakers, was this: (to Catholics) How is it that you believe in all of the Gifts Of The Holy Ghost but show exclusivity toward the Speaking In Tongues? (to tonguespeakers) How is it that you believe in all of the Gifts Of The Holy Ghost but indulge in only one of 'em?


{reset}

Clara Listensprechen

Part II...

You'd get burned at the stake? This did used to be an Approved Church Practice, especially in Europe, in the Good Ole Days. Another big beef I've got with religions is the way they mess with minds of children, then create some sort of reactionary behavior in the child's later life. Some grow up to successfully undo the damage, and others select presidents through the activist court system. Ahem...

You're expected to think you're a worthless fool sinner so that you're set up to unquestioningly swallow all that your spiritual leader feeds you, which is why, in the Good Ole Days, religion was an inseparable necessary invaluable instrument of state.

Defiant Heretic

Next time you should stand up and correct her; tell her what you really said. -><-

Tercel

Comments to various people:
That is very sad to hear.
I hope the sleep deprivation was due to you willingly staying up chatting to your friends because you were enjoying yourself (I know I do on camps) rather than forced, and I’m hoping the lack of decent food was an untended result of poor organisation rather than anything intentional...

Agreed. But that theory doesn’t explain speaking in tongues in general, only certain sad, perverted, instances of it.

Yeah, I strongly suspect that over 99% of what goes on when “Speaking in Tongues” is done publicly, is phoney.

Most believe that each person speaks their own individual language between themselves and God. (though of course some of these might be the same: they are just not all the same)

An interesting question. I doubt the answer is yes and yes, else we'd probably have heard all about it. Of course, this experiment assumes that the miracle of providing a "meaning" for the words is occuring in the one speaking the tongue, rather than those interpreting it.

I'm confused. Surely finding out that you really were speaking in another language should confirm your belief, not undermine it?!?

Rhea

Don't get your hopes up.

The weekend retreat I attended did exactly this. Subtly, but certainly. There were actual activities planned and carried out at 5 am and 1am. Despite the hours of activities - yes they would come and get you out of bed, and no they would not offer to let you leave the room - there were still only 3 meals a day. Light fare.

No mistake about it. Very planned, very calculated. And they were all sickeningly nice about it. But the sleep deprivation was pretty clear. Again. If they come and wake you up for breakfast at 5am, and herd you from activity to activity from then until 1am, and do it again the next day, no matter how sticky-sweet they are throughout it cannot be claimed to be poor planning or impromptu chatting.

From talking to others, I find this to be a typical approach.

I remember sitting there at 1am while other kids were crying and giving themselves to Jesus and thinking - "are you people BLIND? Are you really totally clueless that this is the same technique that gets false confessions out of prisoners? People will confess to MURDERS they didn't commit under this technique. HELLO!!! You are being manipulated!" It was mind-boggling.

Treacle Worshipper

quote:
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Treacle Worshipper wrote:
I certainly wasn't consciously making it up. I genuinely thought it was a gift from god at the time. That was what was so freaky about finding out I was speaking Quenya. (Actually, that was one of the minor things that led to me questioning Xianity.)
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Originally posted by Tercel
I'm confused. Surely finding out that you really were speaking in another language should confirm your belief, not undermine it?!?

Quenya is not a "genuine" language; it was invented by Tolkien. It is not a "whole" language, by which I mean there are fragments of it in Tolkien's writing, but not enough vocab etc. to make up an entire language. God is supposed to use "real" languages when you speak in tongues (or that's what I was taught - you don't get tongue-speakers speaking Esperanto) If god is using an elvish language to speak to/through you, does that mean it's real? Do elves exist?

I had plenty of other, better reasons for rejecting Xianity, this was just another thing that made me go "Huh? What?"
TW

Stephen T-B

In my parent’s congregation, speaking in tongues is regarded as a gift from the Holy Spirit, and is always done in pairs (usually a husband and wife); one gabbles, then pauses while the other “translates,” then there’s more gabbling and another pause for more “translation,” and so on. It can go on for quite a while.
When I saw it (the occasion was my father’s 80th birthday which the congregation made a lot of, him being a healer and charismatic preacher) the gabbler seemed to be in something like a trance, and clearly had no idea what he was saying until it had been translated.
I hoped he’d exclaim: “Crickey, did I really say that?” but he just sat there waiting for his turn again.
We lived a long way from my parents and I had driven down for the celebration with my children, and after the service of thanksgiving, I we were taken out for a walk by a member of the congregation. We passed a building which she said was where her own children went to school, and my daughter, who was then 18, mischievously asked if they had classes in Speaking in Tongues there. She had not been very impressed by the demonstration we’d just seen.
(A few years earlier she’d been staying with my parents and they’d told her about an exorcism they’d held in their living room when my father had cast out someone’s demon. The effect of the story wasn’t quite what they’d expected because my daughter immediately visualised the demon as a cocky little chap sitting on the arm of the settee with his arms folded and his legs crossed.)