Freethought & Rationalism Archive

GunnerJ · 10-18-2002, 06:46 AM

I remember I tried posting at Christian forums a while back, a topic about why God doesn't answer prayers. About ten Christiand there answered and we argued a while. I felt like I was a dog chasing my own tail. Their inability to follow simple chains of logic made it one of the most infuriating attempts at dialogue I ever engaged in. It's not like I could even be mad at them. In their posts, they weren't even aware of how silly they sounded. It was like I couldn't even relate to their way of thinking, it was so bizzare. I quit the discussion and didn't go back. It just got so frustrating.

So, there may be other reasons for someone's absence in a discussion with many other people who have radically different ways of thinking.

Radcliffe Emerson · 10-18-2002, 01:49 PM

I used to be a fairly devout Christian. Taking the time to read the bible in its entirety for myself was the first step toward my disbelief. When I read the whole thing for myself (I took 2.5 years to do it), I couldn't believe some of the hokey b.s. supernatural junk that's in there.
I couldn't believe anyone would actually believe any of it.
Studying about when the books of the bible were really written, and how the councils forced beliefs on people and voted on books to be included, etc, finally convinced me beyond doubt it's pure bunk. On top of that, learning more about ancient Rome and their conflicts with the Jews, and their methods for crucifying victims told me beyond doubt the crucificion stories can never have happened the way the bible claims, even if Jesus did exist and was crucified.
Don't believe the bible anymore, never will again.

Brian63 · 10-18-2002, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rimstalker:
<strong>So, there may be other reasons for someone's absence in a discussion with many other people who have radically different ways of thinking.</strong>

That's certainly true. Sometimes I stop in a discussion because I have been "stumped," but there are various other reasons as well. The person or persons I was conversing with may have been too rude for my taste, or I just found their illogical thinking too much trouble to deal with, the topic itself just wasn't interesting enough, or I actually had things to do in *real* life that were a higher priority.

Even if it is true that the Christians in this thread stop posting because you had "stumped" them, so what? It doesn't mean that atheism is true at all. Some Christian philosopher could come by at any time and "beat up" on some of the atheists here, but would you believe that meant that Christianity was true? Doubtful. It just means that particular Christian was more knowledgeable about the subject than a particular atheist. Grow up people and stop sounding so arrogant about your "victory." There are plenty of Christians that are smarter than you and me.

Brian

K · 10-19-2002, 08:23 PM

Just making sure this doesn't fade away and that Breeze can find it when she returns.

Defiant Heretic · 10-19-2002, 09:27 PM

Breeze, You have suggested that Christianity and the Christian god somehow endow your life with meaning. Could you explain how this happens?

Consider this question: If our lives do not have meaning unless we are created, then how does your god have meaning to his life if he wasn't created? And if he doesn't, then how does he endow our lives with meaning?

(Besides, you're an engineer. If that's not the meaning of life, I don't know what is

)

Goliath · 10-20-2002, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by K:
<strong>Just making sure this doesn't fade away and that Breeze can find it when she returns.</strong>

Does anyone who is still reading this thread actually think that she will return?

Sincerely,

Goliath

K · 10-20-2002, 02:40 PM

No, but I'm still hoping.

K · 10-24-2002, 05:49 AM

I guess Breeze isn't coming back. This is a huge disappointment since we were tantalizingly close to actual scientific evidence for the existence of God from a person very familiar with scientific testing methods.

Pierre · 10-24-2002, 05:59 AM

"Why Christianity? Why not Zeus? Or Allah? Or the Invisible Pink Unicorn? The answers you give to such a question are probably similar to the answers atheists will give to your question."

This reply, given in one of the posts earlier on, is the best possible answer I have ever read anywhere regarding the question.

Jack · 11-02-2002, 08:18 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BreezeinaTree:
[QB]

I admit that many terrible things have been done in the name of Christianity. I counter that these are people acting on their own behalf, not on behalf of what the Bible teaches.

Jack > Ah, the "No True Scotsman" argument! I DO love the oldies!

If the Scotsman does something praiseworthy, that's OK. If he does something that is not, he is "nae a true Scotsman", no matter that he was born and raised in Aberdeen, or the Highlands, or wherever.

That way all "true Scotsman" do only praiseworthy acts.

If a person, born and raised in a Christian environment, commits an atrocity, how can I not ascribe his/her behavior (at least in part) to the Christian background?

Jack

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10-18-2002, 06:46 AM	#171
GunnerJ Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: a place where i can list whatever location i want Posts: 4,871	I remember I tried posting at Christian forums a while back, a topic about why God doesn't answer prayers. About ten Christiand there answered and we argued a while. I felt like I was a dog chasing my own tail. Their inability to follow simple chains of logic made it one of the most infuriating attempts at dialogue I ever engaged in. It's not like I could even be mad at them. In their posts, they weren't even aware of how silly they sounded. It was like I couldn't even relate to their way of thinking, it was so bizzare. I quit the discussion and didn't go back. It just got so frustrating. So, there may be other reasons for someone's absence in a discussion with many other people who have radically different ways of thinking.

10-18-2002, 01:49 PM	#172
Radcliffe Emerson Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: the dark side of Mars Posts: 1,309	I used to be a fairly devout Christian. Taking the time to read the bible in its entirety for myself was the first step toward my disbelief. When I read the whole thing for myself (I took 2.5 years to do it), I couldn't believe some of the hokey b.s. supernatural junk that's in there. I couldn't believe anyone would actually believe any of it. Studying about when the books of the bible were really written, and how the councils forced beliefs on people and voted on books to be included, etc, finally convinced me beyond doubt it's pure bunk. On top of that, learning more about ancient Rome and their conflicts with the Jews, and their methods for crucifying victims told me beyond doubt the crucificion stories can never have happened the way the bible claims, even if Jesus did exist and was crucified. Don't believe the bible anymore, never will again.

10-19-2002, 08:23 PM	#174
K Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,485	Just making sure this doesn't fade away and that Breeze can find it when she returns.

10-19-2002, 09:27 PM	#175
Defiant Heretic Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 1,288	Breeze, You have suggested that Christianity and the Christian god somehow endow your life with meaning. Could you explain how this happens? Consider this question: If our lives do not have meaning unless we are created, then how does your god have meaning to his life if he wasn't created? And if he doesn't, then how does he endow our lives with meaning? (Besides, you're an engineer. If that's not the meaning of life, I don't know what is )

10-20-2002, 02:40 PM	#177
K Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,485	No, but I'm still hoping.

10-24-2002, 05:49 AM	#178
K Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,485	I guess Breeze isn't coming back. This is a huge disappointment since we were tantalizingly close to actual scientific evidence for the existence of God from a person very familiar with scientific testing methods.

10-24-2002, 05:59 AM	#179
Pierre Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: South Africa Posts: 44	"Why Christianity? Why not Zeus? Or Allah? Or the Invisible Pink Unicorn? The answers you give to such a question are probably similar to the answers atheists will give to your question." This reply, given in one of the posts earlier on, is the best possible answer I have ever read anywhere regarding the question.

11-02-2002, 08:18 PM	#180
Jack Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Anaheim, CA, USA Posts: 126	[QUOTE]Originally posted by BreezeinaTree: [QB] I admit that many terrible things have been done in the name of Christianity. I counter that these are people acting on their own behalf, not on behalf of what the Bible teaches. Jack > Ah, the "No True Scotsman" argument! I DO love the oldies! If the Scotsman does something praiseworthy, that's OK. If he does something that is not, he is "nae a true Scotsman", no matter that he was born and raised in Aberdeen, or the Highlands, or wherever. That way all "true Scotsman" do only praiseworthy acts. If a person, born and raised in a Christian environment, commits an atrocity, how can I not ascribe his/her behavior (at least in part) to the Christian background? Jack

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