Principia

Good point. I have never had of a "scientific proof" -- perhaps jolene555 can cite an example?

jolene555

by "expect" do you mean "believe"?? you don't know, you think. i have plenty of arguements for creationism, but i have argued the point so many times that i know already the loopholes y'all would use against me. so i'll throw out another typical arguement - where did we come from?? a rock? an oort cloud?? a speck of dust just hanging out in nothingness before it exploded?? at least my story tells me how it started. you will never be able to answer the question of how we began without falling into the trap of answering the question of "and how did that get there?? who made it??"

am i at least entertaining y'all?? i hate to think i am wasting my time. seems like you've been waiting for a creationist to walk in to pick apart

-jo

Godless Dave

I'm not trying to give you hell, just have a discussion.

Well, we are discussing biology.


I can't answer a question if I don't understand it. Your original question was vague. Thanks for clarifying. Pz provided some good answers above.

simian

jolene555,

You state the age of the earth as about 6,000 years old. I assume this is a number you get from relying on others going back through the geneologies and trying to pasta together a date. A huge number of verses and assumptions (the first one being that the bible is literally true in every verse, or at least every one that "counts").

How do you read Matthew 4:8? ("Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their grandeur.")

Presumably as something that is recorded in the bible as happening to Jesus, you would believe it really happened.

Just one problem: the earth is a sphere. You can't see all the kingdoms of the earth from a single vantage point. Take a look at a globe. Even at an infinite distance you can only see 1/2 the world.

There are a number of ways that this verse is reconciled with reality - choose one. Why does the old testament, through quite a string of books, remain literally true, while Matthew 4:8 does not?

Simian

(I realize you are probably going to get swamped with questions on this thread, but please think about how you would answer the question, even if time does not allow you to answer).

Shadowy Man

You mean like this:

"This God you speak of. How did that get there?? Who made it??"

Principia

Your story also tells you that women (female homo sapiens) were made from the ribs of a man (a male homo sapiens). Your story also quite frankly says that women are subservient to men. I am quite sure that you are aware of how your story is just one of a myriad of creation stories that exist (or existed)? So, the question I want answered is why you can't settle on the temporary "I don't know" answer, and let science figure it out... because you know, everybody can do science.

jolene555

simian . . . i think you may have read that verse thinking that the devil was more humanlike than godlike. i have stated that i believe the bible in it's entirety, therefore i think that satan actually did show jesus all the kingdoms of the world. surely it does not say how, but satan has the ability to induse images and the like. i don't find that verse to hold an arguement

-jo

jolene555

everybody can do science, so it's the right answer?? nah, i won't take that. and furthormore i will not say "i don't know" when i do know. i know exactly what happened. maybe you should be the one admitting that there are holes in science and that you'll never know how to explain it all scientifically

-jo

pz

No, "expect" does not mean "believe". We know quite a bit about the process of fossilization, and we know roughly what kind of frequencies of fossilization will occur. It's low. Very low. Do you want to argue otherwise?Better that than to know, but not think -- which is the usual situation for creationists.Those aren't loopholes. Those are substantial arguments against the creationist position, which, if you'd actually thought seriously about them, would reveal to you that creationism is scientifically untenable. Those are questions about abiogenesis, not evolution, and are really the domain of physicists and chemists. My answer is simply that I don't know. I suppose you could postulate that a god-like being triggered the big bang, or something like that, but it doesn't help your position. The problems are a) that it says nothing about biological evolution, and so cannot be used as a basis to refute it, and b) your god-like being also immediately falls into the trap of "how did that get there?? who made it??"I'm sorry, but you aren't particularly entertaining at all. You aren't providing much depth or challenge, and so far everything you've said is pretty shallow and also very much the same thing all the uninformed creationists say.

If you could try a little harder, I'd appreciate it.

jolene555

then i see i am wasting my time . . . this will be my last post on this thread

-jo