Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Wizardry · 08-10-2002, 12:30 PM

It looks as if the transliteration is incorrect.

My transliteration from the picture is as follows:

ShYT MLK M'B H
KMSh LMB(R KY 'H
H WHN (ShTY 'T

Where:
Sh = Shin
' = Aleph
( = Ayin

Giving Hansen's transliteration the benefit of the doubt, I may not have been able to see the first or last letters on the first line, the first two on the second line or the first on the third, although they may in fact be present on closer inspection.

However, it seems as though Hansen's transliteration missed a Mem, a Lamed and a Taw there.

Now, I don't know a word of Moabite (who does, really?), but I'm going to guess that MLK should be some variant of Melek, which I learned from the last challenge means King.

Which means the translation is wrong as well and should probably read something similar to (additions in parentheses):

I am Mesha, son of K]emosh-yat, (King of) the Dib[onite(s)]

Unfortunately, I do not have access to Gibson to see who made the error. Somebody else will have to check it out.

Was that a satisfactory effort?

Peter Kirby · 08-10-2002, 02:20 PM

I don't know a word of Hebrew, but I had time to waste and access to a library. Here is the relevant page from Gibson's book:

<a href="http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/elkerak-gibson.jpg" target="_blank">Scan of Syrian Semetic Inscriptions, p. 83</a>

Here is Gibson's translation:

1. (I am Mesha, son of Ch)emosh-yat, king of Moab, the Di(bonite)......

2...........(in the temp)le of Chemosh as an act of purgation, because I lo(ve)............

3.........and his..........And behold, I have constructed.........

It appears that Hanson has left out the part that translates to "king of Moab." I do not know if this is the error that King Arthur had in mind.

best,
Peter Kirby

King Arthur · 08-10-2002, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wizardry:
Was that a satisfactory effort?

Aw man wuz it!

<a href="http://etrata.home.attbi.com/flash/banana.swf" target="_blank">It's peanut butter jelly time</a> for you, man!

You got it you got it you got it...

Signed,
King Arthur The Fool

[ August 10, 2002: Message edited by: King Arthur ]

King Arthur · 08-10-2002, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Kirby:
It appears that Hanson has left out the part that translates to "king of Moab." I do not know if this is the error that King Arthur had in mind.

best,
Peter Kirby

Yes!!!!!!!!

That last post is for you too, then, Peter!!!!

King Arthur · 08-10-2002, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wizardry:
Giving Hansen's transliteration the benefit of the doubt, I may not have been able to see the first or last letters on the first line, the first two on the second line or the first on the third, although they may in fact be present on closer inspection.

Yeah, I noticed that too, but I've noticed from experience handling actual manuscripts that there are occasionally things one can see in person that one can't see in a photograph. This could be one of those cases.

Quote:

Now, I don't know a word of Moabite (who does, really?), but I'm going to guess that MLK should be some variant of Melek, which I learned from the last challenge means King.

Leave to 'ol King Arthur to come up with another challenge involving part of his title!!!

Quote:

Was that a satisfactory effort?

I'm gonna have to pay closer attention to your posts Wizardry! You did pretty well on my last challenge also! I don't know why I haven't really noticed your posts before. I must be spending to much of my time focusing on others' junk posts.

King Arthur · 08-10-2002, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Kirby:
It appears that Hanson has left out the part that translates to "king of Moab." I do not know if this is the error that King Arthur had in mind.

best,
Peter Kirby

Excellento! Is that a word?

I didn't expect anyone to actual put up a scan of the page! That's awesome! Ata HaIsh!

Think K.C. Hanson would believe us nobodies?

Peter Kirby · 08-10-2002, 02:36 PM

I took Spanish in high school. The word is "excelente." I should have taken Latin, as that would have been far more practical for my interests.

I think we should tell Hanson. He doesn't have to believe us; he can verify it for himself.

best,
Peter Kirby

King Arthur · 08-10-2002, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Peter Kirby:
I think we should tell Hanson. He doesn't have to believe us; he can verify it for himself.

best,
Peter Kirby

Perhaps you or someone could direct him to your scaned copy of Gibson, so that he could verify it for himself (without annoyingly having to find it in the library himself that is)? Cool beans!

[ August 10, 2002: Message edited by: King Arthur ]

King Arthur · 08-10-2002, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Wizardry:
Which means the translation is wrong as well and should probably read something similar to (additions in parentheses):

I am Mesha, son of K]emosh-yat, (King of) the Dib[onite(s)]

Oops. I missed that the first time because I was so excited that someone had figured it out! You're close enough for government work though!

It should have been as Peter found it in Gibson's book:

(I am Mesha, son of Ch)emosh-yat, king of Moab, the Di(bonite)......

Still, great work!!

[ August 10, 2002: Message edited by: King Arthur ]

King Arthur · 08-10-2002, 05:08 PM

Man! That congratulations post of mine was a great prize and well worth the effort, dontcha think?! Did anyone listen to the Peanut Butter Jelly song?? What a riot!!!

[ August 10, 2002: Message edited by: King Arthur ]

08-10-2002, 05:08 PM	#40
King Arthur Banned Join Date: May 2002 Location: Camelot Posts: 290	Man! That congratulations post of mine was a great prize and well worth the effort, dontcha think?! Did anyone listen to the Peanut Butter Jelly song?? What a riot!!! [ August 10, 2002: Message edited by: King Arthur ]</p>

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08-10-2002, 12:30 PM	#31
Wizardry Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Florida, USA Posts: 363	It looks as if the transliteration is incorrect. My transliteration from the picture is as follows: ShYT MLK M'B H KMSh LMB(R KY 'H H WHN (ShTY 'T Where: Sh = Shin ' = Aleph ( = Ayin Giving Hansen's transliteration the benefit of the doubt, I may not have been able to see the first or last letters on the first line, the first two on the second line or the first on the third, although they may in fact be present on closer inspection. However, it seems as though Hansen's transliteration missed a Mem, a Lamed and a Taw there. Now, I don't know a word of Moabite (who does, really?), but I'm going to guess that MLK should be some variant of Melek, which I learned from the last challenge means King. Which means the translation is wrong as well and should probably read something similar to (additions in parentheses): I am Mesha, son of K]emosh-yat, (King of) the Dib[onite(s)] Unfortunately, I do not have access to Gibson to see who made the error. Somebody else will have to check it out. Was that a satisfactory effort?

08-10-2002, 02:20 PM	#32
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	I don't know a word of Hebrew, but I had time to waste and access to a library. Here is the relevant page from Gibson's book: <a href="http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/elkerak-gibson.jpg" target="_blank">Scan of Syrian Semetic Inscriptions, p. 83</a> Here is Gibson's translation: 1. (I am Mesha, son of Ch)emosh-yat, king of Moab, the Di(bonite)...... 2...........(in the temp)le of Chemosh as an act of purgation, because I lo(ve)............ 3.........and his..........And behold, I have constructed......... It appears that Hanson has left out the part that translates to "king of Moab." I do not know if this is the error that King Arthur had in mind. best, Peter Kirby

08-10-2002, 02:36 PM	#37
Peter Kirby Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor Posts: 4,035	I took Spanish in high school. The word is "excelente." I should have taken Latin, as that would have been far more practical for my interests. I think we should tell Hanson. He doesn't have to believe us; he can verify it for himself. best, Peter Kirby

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