Freethought & Rationalism Archive

S2Focus · 07-09-2003, 12:16 PM

(from http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centr...ws/6260296.htm -- emphasis added)

Those named by the network disagree with the claim, including the
Discovery Institute and its Science and Culture Center of Seattle.

"Instead of wasting time looking at motivations, we wish people
would look at the facts," said John West, associate director of the
center.

"Our goal nationally is to encourage schools and educators to
include more about evolution, including controversies about
various parts of Darwinian theory that exists between even
evolutionary scientists," West said. "We are a secular think tank."

RufusAtticus · 07-09-2003, 12:21 PM

Talk about a bunch of liars.

emotional · 07-09-2003, 12:23 PM

Secular my ass!

Principia · 07-09-2003, 12:34 PM

From the article:
Discovery Institute Fellow Raymond Bohlin, who also is executive director of Probe Ministries, based in Richardson, Texas, will deliver that message in person Wednesday before the State Board of Education. Bohlin has a doctorate degree in molecular cell biology from the University of Texas at Dallas.

"If we can simply allow students to see that evolution is not an established fact, that leaves freedom for students to pursue other ideas," Bohlin said. "All I can do is continue to point these things out and hopefully get a group that hears and sees relevant data and insist on some changes."

Yet another DI fellow who got a PhD to do apologetics. Research count? Insignificant. But here's an interesting take on what it means to have a "secular think tank: http://www.probe.org/docs/bohlin.html

Quote:

POSITION STATEMENT ON CREATION/EVOLUTION
1. That God is Creator is clearly taught in Scripture: Genesis 1 and 2, Job 38-41, Psalm 104, Romans 1:18-20, and Col. 1:16,17. The suggestion that life and man are the result of chance is incompatible with the biblical concept of intelligent creative activity. Theistic evolution is not a viable option in my opinion.
2. The data from astrophysics, astronomy, and mathematics do not support the concept of an eternal universe with no beginning. Something, indeed, has always existed, but it is not matter and energy. There is a definite requirement for a transcendent energizing existence which is outside the material universe.

3. The data from geology, chemistry, biochemistry, and molecular biology do not support the theory that life arose from non-life by some process of chemical evolution. There is a definite requirement for intelligence in organizing and ordering living systems.

4. The data from paleontology, genetics, ecology, and molecular biology do not support the theory of descent with modification from single-celled organisms to man. The elements of intelligent design in nature point to a Supreme Designer that possesses a sense of beauty, form, function, and even humor. Though organisms do change over time, there appears to be genetically built-in limits to the amount and type of biological change that is possible.

5. The plain language of Genesis 1 seems to teach a recent literal six-day creation. There is much data from science, however, that indicates the universe and earth are billions of years old. I do not believe that certainty regarding the age of the earth is either necessary or possible at this time. Tension in areas of conflict between science and biblical interpretation should not necessarily be viewed as either questioning the inerrancy of scripture or a lack of faith. This issue should not be the focus of the creation/evolution debate at this time.

6. The plain language of Genesis 6-8 teaches a violent universal flood which would be expected to leave discernible scars on the earth. However, it is difficult to assimilate all geological formations into a model of a single worldwide flood only 5,000 years ago. There is also a significant amount of geological data that is not easily explained by uniformitarian principles. Research of a water canopy/universal flood model should be vigorously pursued, but belief in such should not be made a litmus test of true Christian belief.

The creation/evolution debate is not only a divisive issue between the conservative Christian community and the scientific establishment, but it also divides Christians as well. The tension between both sets of groups often arises because people are talking with no one listening, and hearing without understanding. Strict adherence to a position is more important than understanding another's point of view. This lack of communication only intensifies the confrontation due to internal biases.
I believe that a reasonable and calm presentation of the evidence can defuse the emotional bullets, especially if questions are answered straightforwardly and with integrity. As a result, the level of learning on both sides is drastically increased. While there are some points in which I believe strongly and will defend them rigorously, there are other issues which still require much study and discussion between all parties before a firm commitment can be taken. Part of my overall purpose is to increase the level and depth of communication between differing camps of the creation/evolution debate while reducing the level of suspicion, contempt, and confrontation. This approach is aimed first of all at bringing Christians together and secondly towards increasing the level of communication between creationists and evolutionists outside the church.

We must take up the Lord's invitation to the nation of Israel through the prophet Isaiah when He said, "Come now, and let us reason together" (Is. 1:18).

charlie d · 07-09-2003, 12:55 PM

In other words:
I believe that a reasonable and calm presentation of the evidence can defuse the emotional bullets, especially if the evidence is simply ignored.

LOL. How does the DI even find these guys?

Rhaedas · 07-09-2003, 12:56 PM

Quote:

transcendent energizing existence *

*goddidit to the layperson

:banghead:

JaeIsGod · 07-09-2003, 01:05 PM

I think monkeys must be pretty embarresed about being our ancestors.
They brought forth quite a number of serious nutcases.

(Oh, and for the record , I do know that humans didnt technically evolve from monkeys , it just sounded better =] )

JaeIsGod · 07-09-2003, 01:08 PM

Oh , and one of the reasons for this is because I found a YEC who was skeptical about the existance of other solar systems then our own.
I mean , it shouldnt get much weirder.

lpetrich · 07-09-2003, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by JaeIsGod
(Oh, and for the record , I do know that humans didnt technically evolve from monkeys , it just sounded better =] )

Correct for present-day ones, but the common ancestors had been very worthy of being called monkeys.

Mageth · 07-09-2003, 01:42 PM

transcendent energizing existence

The energizer bunny created the universe?

07-09-2003, 12:16 PM	#1
S2Focus Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: 1162 easy freeway minutes from the new ICR in TX Posts: 896	DI Howler rates a 9 out of 10 on the beverage-thru-the-nose-o-meter. (from http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centr...ws/6260296.htm -- emphasis added) Those named by the network disagree with the claim, including the Discovery Institute and its Science and Culture Center of Seattle. "Instead of wasting time looking at motivations, we wish people would look at the facts," said John West, associate director of the center. "Our goal nationally is to encourage schools and educators to include more about evolution, including controversies about various parts of Darwinian theory that exists between even evolutionary scientists," West said. "We are a secular think tank."

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07-09-2003, 12:21 PM	#2
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	Talk about a bunch of liars.

07-09-2003, 12:23 PM	#3
emotional Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Boxing ring of HaShem, Jesus and Allah Posts: 1,945	Secular my ass!

07-09-2003, 12:55 PM	#5
charlie d Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: here and there Posts: 56	In other words: I believe that a reasonable and calm presentation of the evidence can defuse the emotional bullets, especially if the evidence is simply ignored. LOL. How does the DI even find these guys?

07-09-2003, 01:05 PM	#7
JaeIsGod Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 760	I think monkeys must be pretty embarresed about being our ancestors. They brought forth quite a number of serious nutcases. (Oh, and for the record , I do know that humans didnt technically evolve from monkeys , it just sounded better =] )

07-09-2003, 01:08 PM	#8
JaeIsGod Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 760	Oh , and one of the reasons for this is because I found a YEC who was skeptical about the existance of other solar systems then our own. I mean , it shouldnt get much weirder.

07-09-2003, 01:42 PM	#10
Mageth Contributor Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Deep in the heart of mother-lovin' Texas Posts: 29,689	transcendent energizing existence The energizer bunny created the universe?

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