semyaza

Isn't this argument as old as Henry Morris and "The Genesis Flood"? It's pretty easy to refute. For one thing, stratigraphic sorting also applies to plants, which are not noted for their mobility. It's a little hard to imagine a herd of flowering plants charging uphill to escape the oncoming Flood. And what about dinosaur eggs? These are found in the same strata as their parents, sometimes still intact in their nests. Unless Mommy dinosaur picked up the clutch and ran with them, I'd say that the sorting argument is dead in the water.

Camaban

Yes

the difference being that lawyers can't lie as solidly as creationists can and get away with it.

And then, once I've made enough money to suit my retirement well, I'll "come out" tell the world I'm full of bollocks, and move back to Australia.

tgamble

What part of creation "science" isn't? He's the moron who started this damn cult in the first place.

Amen-Moses

Well as I have pointed out to many a creationist before now, the amount of topsoil varies all over the planet, where I used to live in Wiltshire it amounted to only 6 inches or so, in some places it is several metres and in others nothing at all, a global flood would just distribute this topsoil all over the planet in a reasonably random way (with of course more of it being deposited in deep ocean basins than any where else purely because of gravity), this would lead one to predict an average sediment depth of a couple of feet or so, hardly enough to bury a single large ammonite never mind the tens of metres of ammonites above it in the fossil record.

Of course I am still waiting for the creationist explanation of Brachiosaur footprints on a vertical rock surface 15,000 ft up in the alps, at the time the footprints were made the surface was wet silt, did these 100 ton dino's climb a vertical cliff face in order to escape the flood?

Amen-Moses

Coragyps

Yeah, I like to point out that seed ferns and cypress trees both grow/grew in swamps, and the seed ferns all got buried. Apparently cypresses don't just have "knees," but also feet to run from the flood.

Sandslice

Weren't there a few fossils in the Gobi Desert that could confirm that? I think one involved a protoceratops (primitive, hornless precursor to triceratops) and a velociraptor; they had killed each other and were found that way. Or there was an "intact" (insofar as fossils can be) nest of protoceratops eggs, with one of them in the process of hatching.

Or we could use the Belgian iguanodon mine... contrive me a flood scenario that could dump that many iguanodons in the same coal mine AND flatten the world, then erode away the mountains and the Grand Canyon, without the iguanodons becomin' coal or oil themselves!

Duvenoy

Another fun question to ask the Phlood Phreaks is: Where did Moe get his drinking water upon landfall? Wouldn't the lakes and rivers be pretty contaminated with salt and silt (and typhus, etc)?



doov

ps418

Until I find time to actually write something new on this topic, check out some of my old posts and articles:

<a href="http://iidb.org/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=3&t=000983&p=" target="_blank">Does the geologic column really exist?</a>

Look at the post talking about graptolites and ammonites.

There is also a good thread from Dec 2001 called "Questions for "In His Name"" that contains some good info on flood sorting. I couldn't get the thread to come up using the search function for some reason. Maybe someone can find it? If not, I have a saved copy I can repost.

My article on <a href="http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/ff.htm" target="_blank">Fossils and the flood</a> also has lots of good information relevant to flood sorting, as does my article on
<a href="http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/roth.htm" target="_blank">Fossil Reefs, Flood Geology, and Recent Creation.</a> Regarding the claims about coal seams, see <a href="http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/aigcoal.htm" target="_blank">AiG on coal and the flood.</a> Regarding the catastrophic plate tectonics espoused by the guy in the post, see the article <a href="http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/CT.htm" target="_blank">Sea-floor spreading and the age of the Earth.</a>

Still more examples of sorting are discussed in my article on <a href="http://www.geocities.com/earthhistory/permo.htm" target="_blank">the Permian-Triassic extinction:</a> see the section on Biostratigraphic Correlation of end-Permian Marine Deposits. Glenn Morton also has a couple of article that are relevant here: <a href="http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/pollen.htm" target="_blank">Pollen order presents problems for the global flood,</a> <a href="http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/micro.htm" target="_blank">Microfossil stratigraphy presents problems for the Flood,</a> <a href="http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/fish.htm" target="_blank">Fish cause problems for the global flood.</a> and <a href="http://www.glenn.morton.btinternet.co.uk/flee.htm" target="_blank">Fleeing from the Flood--an exercise in futility.</a>

Enjoy.

Patrick

[ November 29, 2002: Message edited by: ps418 ]</p>

Gregg

That's what you think *now*. But once the lust for money and power and sexy, weak-willed members of your congregation grabs you, it will never let go! BWAAHAAAHAAAHAAAA!!!

Gregg

Grumpy

It's unclear exactly how much "violence" we're talking about, but I imagine that much floodwater would probably disarticulate every organism it encountered. It's amazing we find any two bones that fit together. (Assuming, of course, that fossils found associated with others are, in fact, part of the same animal!)