ybnormal

Rad, I don't deny that I enjoy teasing at you, and picking up on the off topic things you say. I obviously leave the heavy lifting to those who know their stuff. I know my limits. The fact that you leave so much off topic preaching and such scattered around for me, pretty much makes the case that you don't always stick to just the factual discussions with the heavy lifters.

Surely you aren't claiming that it is only your audience of skeptics here who are on soapboxes. To suggest that either Toto or Buffman for example, are ever on soapboxes with off topic material, while you stick to the facts, is a pretty ridiculous claim, if that is your claim.

Surely you must admit that you bring some of this flack on yourself... certainly where I come in, you most certainly do. I don't see how you can deny that. But we are all ignored from time to time, so maybe some of us don't understand, why you can't carry on your serious and "civil discussion" with the serious folks, and simply ignore the flack, again, much of which you bring on yourself, and thus could maybe be avoided some. This IS an Atheist board. You have no right or reason to expect anything other than rebuke, when you preach to us, that only xians can solve all our problems in schools. You are too intelligent to ignore this.

As I've said, I kinda like you, and I have nothing against you personally. I have also stated that most everyone has at one time or another tried to reach you as just another human being... but we have all failed our attempts. We haven't a clue how to reach you on a personal level. Certainly you can admit that your open distaste for us, is at least equal to ours for some xians. It shows. You clearly are skeptical of our honesty, just because of who we are, and I'm sure many of us mirror that back at you. Such is our situation now, of which you are a major part.

If you have ANY suggestion as to how we can all take a step back, refocus and try again, I doubt you'll find anyone on this board unwilling to make a new effort. But it ain't gonna just happen. We ain't as bad as you think we are, nor are you as bad as some of us make you out to be. Again, such is the situation we are in, and I willingly admit to whatever part I've played in us getting to this point.

I'm doing this in a hurry, and I hate that, but I am being drop dead serious and honest with you. I assure you that I, and certainly most everyone else involved here are wide open to hearing you out, if you too can take that step back with us. That "miraculous change" would be a welcomed thing to experience.

Peace!

Radorth

I think you have your blinders on man. You don't recall Toto trying to close a thread with the last insult and off-topic mirepresentations of me? You don't recall Buffman completely misquoting me about Washington's beliefs, which misquote was so far off-topic he put it in parentheses? Oh please.

A point well taken, but you will not reach anyone on a personal level when s/he knows s/he will be personally attacked at the slightest hint of weakness or transparency, and for the reasons stated by Sabine Grant. Christians ARE human. That's the whole point. How many skeptics who respond to me can simply agree to disagree without making some personal comment? What is truly remarkable is that the listeners are already biased in their favor, yet they still make these comments!

I also tried to tone things down by calling myself a "fellow human hypocrite" and signing off as "Kettle" with no noticeable effect, so I don't know what you want me to do except take incessant abuse and act holy.

Here's one suggestion that will help immensely I think. Let those who want to participate in a thread get somebody else to moderate it, take turns or moderate each other. Having the fox watch the henhouse is just silly and invites trouble. This thread is a prime example.

I aprreciate you sentiments Yb, but you did get pretty angry when I did not respond to your last "peacemaking" post. Why should I think you can change overight? Forgive me if I take a wait and see attitude, will you?

Rad

Radorth

It may surprise you to know that a fella called "Skeptic" on another forum once roasted me, rather sarcastically, but I have seldom laughed so hard in my life. I'm not sure why, but I can only assume the funniest "roasters" or satirists, have some sense of their own frailties and don't come across as just mean.

Rad

Buffman

Radorth

Unfortunately they consider slander some sort of free speech.

I see that you are still having difficulty with understanding the differences between libel and slander even though I have provided you with their definitions. Therefore I must wonder why you would intentionally continue to screw-up. Care to explain?

Sabine

I offered you and Amie a question and a challenge which you have chosen to ignore...much as Radorth choses to ignore questions and challenges for which he has little verifiable evidence or researched understanding. (Please note my above comment to him.) Therefore, do you have some unstated motivation that causes you to continue to desire to suppress free speech in these forums? All I have been able to determine from your posts on this string is that you don't like people saying the things in the manner that they do to Radorth...or yourself.

Honesty Toto Please!

PS : I expect the best from you.... you are stuck !

Personally I have found Toto to be a wonderful champion of free speech and a Moderator that has bent over backwards to be fair to one and all. I found your above inference to be without a very knowledgeable foundation and totally self-serving. Might I suggest that you give some serious thought to the real motivations for your posts.

Like I mentioned before, this is not the Christian Activism Forum and this is not the Christian Web. As far as I am concerned you will be a welcome member just as long as you don't forget that. When you attempt to invoke or apply your views of what is or is not appropriate speech, then you can fully expect others to take strong exception should they disagree. If you can't tolerate that, then there are many other options available to you. Did you PM or e-mail Toto before lodging your public complaint with how he is handling a self-admitted fundamentalist Christian troll?

Buffman

Radorth

You don't recall Buffman completely misquoting me about Washington's beliefs, which misquote was so far off-topic he put it in parentheses? Oh please.

Since you have used this canard a good many times, let me see if I can understand why you do without having to resort to a time consuming exercise of "first he said and then I said" copy and paste post.

Did you not question the claim that Washington was most likely a closet Deist? Did you not then offer an unsourced quote where Washington used the word Jesus? Did several folks claim that he had not used that word in any of the Washington papers or writings that they could find, and thus placing your unsourced quote in the realm of the Barton/Federer school of revisionist history? Did I not make the time consuming effort to actually locate and post the specific document which carries his signature and within which the word Jesus does appear? Did I then point out that the document had been written by his aide for his signature? Did I then add the personal comment that the use of the word Jesus in one document, in his entire lifetime, hardly supported the claim by some, and the inference by yourself, that he was a closet Christian all his life?

So exactly how have I misquoted you? I did your homework for you. I proved that you were correct about the word Jesus and that the others were in error. I postulated that Washington's use of the word in that signed document was hardly indicative that he wasn't a practicing Deist. So again, exactly how did I misquote you?

If others believe that I did, then I will be the first to acknowledge my transgression. However, based on the temper, tone and content of the majority of your posts, I have lost all respect for you as an unbiased and honest participant in these forums. Sadly, I do not feel as though you wish to be a thoughtful, careful and meaningful contributor to these discussions regardless of how many people and times you have been asked to do so. Obviously that is just one man's opinion of you.

Yellum Notnef

Yes you do seem confused Sabine,but this could all be avoided if you had read any of Rads earlier posts.

The working only two hours a day comment was something Rad said in answer to our MANY questions about heaven and "serving" the lord.
But it wasn`t really an answer at all,but a guess that in heaven he`d only have to work two hours a day since he wouldn`t have to hand over any tax money to pay for the education and other needs of babies born to unwed welfare mothers.

It had NOTHING at all to do with his life here on Earth and it`s not anything of a personal nature. Unless you think that everything Rad has said in the "debates" is of a personal nature,but that would have to apply to everything anyone has ever said on these forums including yourself.

And yes. This thread is about Rads dubious intellectual integrity and NOT about attacking Christians.
This was my point. We are NOT throwing Radorth to the lions so you can take a break from saving people Sabine.

ybnormal

I suggested a step back.

Please note that YOU are choosing to carry this forward.
No I don't. No one can possibly recall such an exchange between other people. I have to reread my own words before I quote myself.

I only recall your going on about it.

Show it to us, then maybe we can take a step back.
No I don't. No one can possibly recall such an exchange between other people. I have to reread my own words before I quote myself.

I only recall your going on about it.

Show it to us, then maybe we can take a step back.

(And I seriously doubt Toto has ever "tried" to close a thread.)

winstonjen

I like to call things as I see them, as objectively as possible, and Radorth appears to be a self-important, ignorant and arrogant little bigot.

He claims victory when it is not warranted (Like on the "Sun and Farthing Candle topic), appeals to pity, acts innocent and blames the very people he provokes.

I used to be just like he was, so I know what he's doing.

Toto

TRY? THERE IS NO TRY

A thread was started challenging Rad to show that the constitution was founded on Christian principles. This was a trap, since it is quite clear that the Constitution is godless. Rad floundered around for a while, then tried to change the topic to what the founders meant by the 1st amendment.

When things got out of hand, I closed the thread and invited Rad to start one specifically on what the founders meant. At first he accused me of cutting him off, but I pointed out that I invited him to open a new thread. Now he has decided that I was trying to close a thread that was full of insults and off-topic misrepresentations of him, clearly to save him from savaging by the secular mob (that was irony for those who can't recognize it.)

I think that since we have gotten this far, I will not close this thread. I will wait for Fred to post the document he is working on. In the meantime, I advise all parties to hold off on personal insults, self-pitying whining, and misplaced compassion, since they tend to be counterproductive,

Sabine Grant

Hello again ! came back from work and I am pleased to see your post to Rad. IMO this is an honest attempt to meet the other person half way. Thank you for trying....