Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Liquidrage · 05-31-2002, 09:34 PM

How does once reconcile freewill with the ability of drugs to alter decision making?

The only possible reconciliation I could concieve is that the mind is a perfectly balanced machine capable of creating "freewill" and the introduction of an outside agent somehow throws this balance off.
I don't agree with this, however it is within the realm of possibility.

I also had problems with the known universe(seemingly) being deterministic (without regard to quantum uncretainty) yet the human mind somehow is not.

I am now and have been deterministic for some time. It is the best decision I can make based upon the information I have gathered. However, I must admit that I have not seen enough scientific work on the subject to make a truely informed decision. It is really just my best guess.
So I began looking for such information.

I came accross the work of Benjamin Libet.
<a href="http://www.unca.edu/~combs/temp/HaggardandLibet.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.unca.edu/~combs/temp/HaggardandLibet.pdf</a>

With all the freewill topics here, I'm surprised I've never seen this posted (though I could have missed it). It is rather relevant and profound.
The study seems to have shown that the subconscious mind begins preparing for a decision before the conscious mind is aware of the decision.

I have not found many other works that stay scientific (metaphysical and psuedoscience is in abundance however) in regards to this subject.

Are there some that I am missing(hopefully)?
If anyone can point me to some good information or has any, it would be much appreciated.
And as always, a good discussion never hurts.

[ May 31, 2002: Message edited by: Liquidrage ]</p>

tronvillain · 05-31-2002, 10:40 PM

Well, it all depends on what you mean by "free will." I generally take it as something like "the ability to make rational choices", so it's really something humans only approximate, and drugs would tend to distort the approximation even further.

Anyone interested in free will should read Dennett's Elbow Room: On the Varieties of Free Will Worth Wanting.

05-31-2002, 09:34 PM	#1
Liquidrage Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Tallahassee Posts: 1,301	The Science of Freewill How does once reconcile freewill with the ability of drugs to alter decision making? The only possible reconciliation I could concieve is that the mind is a perfectly balanced machine capable of creating "freewill" and the introduction of an outside agent somehow throws this balance off. I don't agree with this, however it is within the realm of possibility. I also had problems with the known universe(seemingly) being deterministic (without regard to quantum uncretainty) yet the human mind somehow is not. I am now and have been deterministic for some time. It is the best decision I can make based upon the information I have gathered. However, I must admit that I have not seen enough scientific work on the subject to make a truely informed decision. It is really just my best guess. So I began looking for such information. I came accross the work of Benjamin Libet. <a href="http://www.unca.edu/~combs/temp/HaggardandLibet.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.unca.edu/~combs/temp/HaggardandLibet.pdf</a> With all the freewill topics here, I'm surprised I've never seen this posted (though I could have missed it). It is rather relevant and profound. The study seems to have shown that the subconscious mind begins preparing for a decision before the conscious mind is aware of the decision. I have not found many other works that stay scientific (metaphysical and psuedoscience is in abundance however) in regards to this subject. Are there some that I am missing(hopefully)? If anyone can point me to some good information or has any, it would be much appreciated. And as always, a good discussion never hurts. [ May 31, 2002: Message edited by: Liquidrage ]</p>

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05-31-2002, 10:40 PM	#2
tronvillain Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Alberta, Canada Posts: 5,658	Well, it all depends on what you mean by "free will." I generally take it as something like "the ability to make rational choices", so it's really something humans only approximate, and drugs would tend to distort the approximation even further. Anyone interested in free will should read Dennett's Elbow Room: On the Varieties of Free Will Worth Wanting.

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