Duck!

You're right in the sense that we'd never call the native language of Ireland "Gaelic". We "speak" Irish, in the sense that we're meant too, are forced to do so through first and second level schooling, but forget it as soon as we enter the real world.

And in Irish, the language is referred to as "Gaeilge", not "Irish Gaelic" or "Gaelic" or not even "Goidelic", a perverse foreign spelling of native Irish if ever I've seen one.

So we're meant to speak "as Gaeilge", or "in Irish". I only use the word "Gaelic" because it's sometimes used as a blanket term for both the Scots and Irish versions of mutually written comprehensibile languages, which are very consistent in written terms when it comes to spelling and grammer.

I've never actually heard a Scottish person speak "Gaelic". I've heard it's mutually incomprehensible as a spoken language when compared with Irish because of the huge pronunciation gap, but still comes across as two different written dialects of the same language when viewed from a written point of view.

I came across recently a programme for a local drama festival that would include Irish, English and Scottish participants. The programme was written in three languages, Irish, Scots Gaelic and English. As a supposedly native Irish speaker, I could read the Scots Gaelic stuff just like badly spelled Irish. But I don't think I could communicate with a Scottish highlander who spoke Scots Gaelic to me. His pronunciation and accent would probably make two languages that are written wise different dialects, but from spoken point of view, incompatible seperate languages.

Ramble, ramble, ramble.


Duck!

Duck!

Conás a tá tu Biff?

Tá mé go maith.

Is maith liom IIDB.


Duck!

[that's about the limits of the Irish I could currently string together. I graduated from school 10 years ago and have gradually forgotten that which is undoubtedly a beatufil and versatile languge, shame on me]

Duck!

I actually thought that the Ir in Ireland came from the Irish word "Iarthar" meaning "west". Because Ireland was one of the westernmost areas of Europe.

But I could have invented that from a dream.

Where are you from in Ireland anyway Biff? You still live here?

Duck!

[edited for senseless choice of confusing words]

Duck!

But this is all horribly off topic anyway.

Let the proper thread continue. Who wants to listen to us discuss the subtle and no so subtle differences about the pronunciation of ancient words like Keltoi that have buried themselves in several not so related languages.

Pronounce it like you think it should be pronounced according to your local language and custom.

Who cares?


Duck!

Rational BAC

True enough Duck-----

Like the old song---

"You say tomato and I'll say tomahto---You say potato and I'll say potahto----
---------Potato, potahto, tomato, tomahto-----
----Let's call the whole thing off"

emotional

Latin C was at first pronounced hard (unvoiced velar plosive) at all positions. Cf Latin centrum is loaned into Greek as kentron, and Latin Caesar is loaned into Hebrew as qesar (and German Kaiser). It was only in the later pronunciation of Vulgar Latin, towards becoming the Romance languages, that Latin C before E or I assumed a fricative value.

(and more: Latin V was early pronounced as w. Victor gets transcribed by Greek scribes as Ouiktor).

Rational BAC

Emotional---

I took "Old French" almost 40 years ago. (That was the hardest graduate course I ever took) Probably some here have taken "Old English"----------I have heard that that is a bear too--but at least you are dealing with your native language.--and that has to help somewhat.

I probably knew all that stuff at one time. ----but 40 years is a long time to remember things. I do the best I can. If I make mistakes occasionally, I just know that atheists can be just as forgiving as Christians--or should be.