Freethought & Rationalism Archive

scigirl · 06-12-2002, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Written by Arezou Raeisghasem:
If I accept the holy spirit into my heart, I will be forgiven for being such a horrible sinner and God will forgo his wrath on my soul and I will be saved. Give me a break. I do a pretty good job of being hard on myself without religion having to tell me those things.

I mean, I regularly think I am a worthless piece of crap who can't do anything right, but isn't religion supposed to help me not think that about myself? Shouldn't that be the point of religion? To me, this sounds like a very revengeful and hateful God who is very concerned about his own ego.

Maybe I'm way off here, but isn't God supposed to be above all that? If God is so loving and wonderful, why would he even be angry, or have wrath? What's with the eternal damnation and revenge when God is allegedly a loving God? It is about fear.

My sentiments exactly!

scigirl

Jamie_L · 06-13-2002, 05:56 AM

I've thought about this kind of thing myself, and eventually came to conclusions similar to "Smith's Wager":

Either
1) There is no god - It's okay to be an atheist.

2) There is a god, but he doesn't care about us one way or the other - It's okay to be an atheist.

3) There is a god, and he's just and fair. If you use the reason he gave you and honestly come to incorrect conclusions, he won't punish you. - It's okay to be an atheist.

4) There is a god, and he's an unjust god. Such a god is not to be trusted. He might punish you whether you believe or not, for reasons you might not even understand. - It doesn't matter if you're an atheist or not, you'll probably end up in hell either way.

So why not be an atheist? Especially if it makes sense.

Jamie

tommyc · 06-13-2002, 07:02 AM

Quote:

I've thought about this kind of thing myself, and eventually came to conclusions similar to "Smith's Wager":
Either
1) There is no god - It's okay to be an atheist.

2) There is a god, but he doesn't care about us one way or the other - It's okay to be an atheist.

3) There is a god, and he's just and fair. If you use the reason he gave you and honestly come to incorrect conclusions, he won't punish you. - It's okay to be an atheist.

4) There is a god, and he's an unjust god. Such a god is not to be trusted. He might punish you whether you believe or not, for reasons you might not even understand. - It doesn't matter if you're an atheist or not, you'll probably end up in hell either way.

So why not be an atheist? Especially if it makes sense.

Jamie

I wholeheartedly agree on this. I remember thinking about point 3 when I was younger. If I use reason, and "free will" to conclude that God doesn't exist, then surely if he is fair, he couldn't possibly send me to hell, as I used all the faculties "he" gave me to come to a conclusion.

Only one problem though. What if he isn't completely just, or completely unjust, but merely has a f*** off big ego. Believe in him: wings and a harp; don't believe in him: roast behind. Or as Geodfrey the bishop so elequently put it in Blackadder I

"Yes, Hell; where Satan belches fire, and enormous devils break wind both night and day! Hell; where the mind is never free from the torments of remorse, and your bottom never free from the pricking of little forks!"

DarkBronzePlant · 06-13-2002, 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tomcooper:
<strong>

I wholeheartedly agree on this. I remember thinking about point 3 when I was younger. If I use reason, and "free will" to conclude that God doesn't exist, then surely if he is fair, he couldn't possibly send me to hell, as I used all the faculties "he" gave me to come to a conclusion.

Only one problem though. What if he isn't completely just, or completely unjust, but merely has a f*** off big ego. Believe in him: wings and a harp; don't believe in him: roast behind. Or as Geodfrey the bishop so elequently put it in Blackadder I

"Yes, Hell; where Satan belches fire, and enormous devils break wind both night and day! Hell; where the mind is never free from the torments of remorse, and your bottom never free from the pricking of little forks!"

</strong>

That leads to:

5) There is a god who demands that you believe in him, otherwise he'll punish you. In which case, we have no idea which of the multitude of gods is the real one, and it's all a crap shoot anyway.

Secular Elation · 06-13-2002, 09:40 AM

I can't help but think of a theist reading this post. If the theist did, they would just say "You don't understand God, don't blame him" and then link you to Philip Yancey's Where Is God When It Hurts?

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06-13-2002, 05:56 AM	#2
Jamie_L Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: U.S. Posts: 2,565	I've thought about this kind of thing myself, and eventually came to conclusions similar to "Smith's Wager": Either 1) There is no god - It's okay to be an atheist. 2) There is a god, but he doesn't care about us one way or the other - It's okay to be an atheist. 3) There is a god, and he's just and fair. If you use the reason he gave you and honestly come to incorrect conclusions, he won't punish you. - It's okay to be an atheist. 4) There is a god, and he's an unjust god. Such a god is not to be trusted. He might punish you whether you believe or not, for reasons you might not even understand. - It doesn't matter if you're an atheist or not, you'll probably end up in hell either way. So why not be an atheist? Especially if it makes sense. Jamie

06-13-2002, 09:40 AM	#5
Secular Elation Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: California Posts: 6,196	I can't help but think of a theist reading this post. If the theist did, they would just say "You don't understand God, don't blame him" and then link you to Philip Yancey's Where Is God When It Hurts?

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