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never been there · 02-14-2003, 05:11 PM

...if you can call 74 lashes winning. They weren't expected to have the guts to execute him, but they're not going to forgive him for beating them in this deadly game of chicken.

BBC Online

Still, he'll be alive if I ever get the chance to shake his hand.

:notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

Zimyatin · 02-14-2003, 06:00 PM

Iran needs more men like him. Perhaps this is the start of a second, hopefully bloodless, Iranian revolution. The majority of Iranians clearly don't care much for the strict clerical oligarchy. And if memory serves me right, the Iranian revolution was initially not an "islamic" revolution but a peoples' revolution. Just like in Russia, a radical element that was willing to use undemocratic, and sometimes violent, means bullyed its way to power. Kind of reminds me of present day America.

Shake · 02-19-2003, 10:30 AM

Well, I'd hope if there were to be a revolution that it would be bloodless, but seeing as how extremes of religious belief are involved, I wouldn't hold my breath either. The hard-liners won't go down without a fight, I'd imagine. If they get desperate, it may turn violent. Remember that folks like bin Laden are the hard-line types. It's well documented that they'd like to impose Shari'a, the set of strict Islamic laws which in Afghanistan were enforced by a religious police force. Hard-line Muslims are pushing for this sort of things in many Islamic countries, not just Iran. Conflict within one nation could end up spilling over into others as well. This will take time.

never been there · 02-19-2003, 08:56 PM

The Iranians, even the hardliners, hated the Taliban for giving Shari'a a bad rep. I would hope that the sorting-out in Iran doesn't end up forcing all of the mullahs to side with the hardliners. There are plenty of (relative) moderates, and in Shia Islam there is a tradition of jurisprudence that allows for some modernising of the law to provide for greater equality before the courts.

A total elimination of theocracy would be my personal preference, but it isn't going to happen, and even under the Shah a great deal of the law had the same inequalities we worry about today. Actually, I remember a lot of our own laws in Euroamerica being about as patriarchal in my own lifetime.

capsaicin67 · 02-21-2003, 04:17 AM

Humanity needs more people like him! Wow, that's heroic. Big, hairy, Persian balls.....

That's a guy that has a reason to go to Canada! People can do what they want, of course, but if he can buck that system, I think American citizens should see the U.S. of A. as a pretty fantastic fixer-upper opportunity. We got some room to work before the black vans with white crosses get deployed......

Selsaral · 02-21-2003, 12:06 PM

I've been following the events in Iran for a while now. Anyone know of some good books or publications about Iran? I get a lot of my information from standard news organizations like the BBC and the NYT. Iran is a fascinating country, and their current domestic turmoil seems like the model of the modern arab world. I am also depressed that their revolution for the people turned into a brutal dictatorship that uses religion to oppress the people. I am hopeful events will change there without too much destruction to what they have built

never been there · 02-21-2003, 07:43 PM

Sorry I can't point you to specific issues, I can't get access to my account at The Economist. I do remember early February (the eighth) and some time in the Dec.02-Jan.03 range there have been articles in that magazine (sorry, NewsPaper) on the constitution of Iran and how the power struggle is playing out. The February article was a news article, but the earlier one was a major review.

never been there · 02-21-2003, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by never been there
The Economist.

The Dec.19/02 issue.

Jayjay · 02-22-2003, 08:13 PM

Well, technically he didn't win... he dared the death penalty to be carried out if they really meant it, or revoked without him making an appeal, but his lawyer appealed anyway. The impression I got was that these death penalties are given to people as "warning shots" so that they'd appeal and maybe even publicly denounce their so called crimes.

Nevetheless, Aghajari certainly had guts and the world does need more courageous people like him.

02-14-2003, 05:11 PM	#1
never been there Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winnipeg, MB Posts: 2,144	Aghajari wins his bet ...if you can call 74 lashes winning. They weren't expected to have the guts to execute him, but they're not going to forgive him for beating them in this deadly game of chicken. BBC Online Still, he'll be alive if I ever get the chance to shake his hand. :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy

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02-14-2003, 06:00 PM	#2
Zimyatin Regular Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Michigan Posts: 308	Iran needs more men like him. Perhaps this is the start of a second, hopefully bloodless, Iranian revolution. The majority of Iranians clearly don't care much for the strict clerical oligarchy. And if memory serves me right, the Iranian revolution was initially not an "islamic" revolution but a peoples' revolution. Just like in Russia, a radical element that was willing to use undemocratic, and sometimes violent, means bullyed its way to power. Kind of reminds me of present day America.

02-19-2003, 10:30 AM	#3
Shake Contributor Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Folding@Home in upstate NY Posts: 14,394	Well, I'd hope if there were to be a revolution that it would be bloodless, but seeing as how extremes of religious belief are involved, I wouldn't hold my breath either. The hard-liners won't go down without a fight, I'd imagine. If they get desperate, it may turn violent. Remember that folks like bin Laden are the hard-line types. It's well documented that they'd like to impose Shari'a, the set of strict Islamic laws which in Afghanistan were enforced by a religious police force. Hard-line Muslims are pushing for this sort of things in many Islamic countries, not just Iran. Conflict within one nation could end up spilling over into others as well. This will take time.

02-19-2003, 08:56 PM	#4
never been there Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winnipeg, MB Posts: 2,144	The Iranians, even the hardliners, hated the Taliban for giving Shari'a a bad rep. I would hope that the sorting-out in Iran doesn't end up forcing all of the mullahs to side with the hardliners. There are plenty of (relative) moderates, and in Shia Islam there is a tradition of jurisprudence that allows for some modernising of the law to provide for greater equality before the courts. A total elimination of theocracy would be my personal preference, but it isn't going to happen, and even under the Shah a great deal of the law had the same inequalities we worry about today. Actually, I remember a lot of our own laws in Euroamerica being about as patriarchal in my own lifetime.

02-21-2003, 04:17 AM	#5
capsaicin67 Contributor Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Gold coast plain, sea, scrubland, mountain range. Posts: 20,955	Humanity needs more people like him! Wow, that's heroic. Big, hairy, Persian balls..... That's a guy that has a reason to go to Canada! People can do what they want, of course, but if he can buck that system, I think American citizens should see the U.S. of A. as a pretty fantastic fixer-upper opportunity. We got some room to work before the black vans with white crosses get deployed......

02-21-2003, 12:06 PM	#6
Selsaral Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan Posts: 3,095	I've been following the events in Iran for a while now. Anyone know of some good books or publications about Iran? I get a lot of my information from standard news organizations like the BBC and the NYT. Iran is a fascinating country, and their current domestic turmoil seems like the model of the modern arab world. I am also depressed that their revolution for the people turned into a brutal dictatorship that uses religion to oppress the people. I am hopeful events will change there without too much destruction to what they have built

02-21-2003, 07:43 PM	#7
never been there Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Winnipeg, MB Posts: 2,144	Sorry I can't point you to specific issues, I can't get access to my account at The Economist. I do remember early February (the eighth) and some time in the Dec.02-Jan.03 range there have been articles in that magazine (sorry, NewsPaper) on the constitution of Iran and how the power struggle is playing out. The February article was a news article, but the earlier one was a major review.

02-22-2003, 08:13 PM	#9
Jayjay Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Finland Posts: 6,261	Well, technically he didn't win... he dared the death penalty to be carried out if they really meant it, or revoked without him making an appeal, but his lawyer appealed anyway. The impression I got was that these death penalties are given to people as "warning shots" so that they'd appeal and maybe even publicly denounce their so called crimes. Nevetheless, Aghajari certainly had guts and the world does need more courageous people like him.

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