wendel1808

If one looks at the Bible as a whole (it's really just ONE book, the only true book inspired by God's Holy Spirit) then it IS a GREAT guide book for running one's life. The Bible even says so! In 1 Timothy 3:16 it says, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for good work."

Psalm is a book in the Bible that describes every emotion/situation man feels toward God and life: confusion, doubt, happiness, sadness, a lack of faith, judgment, reassurance of faith, joy, love, etc. Proverbs is full of wise sayings/morals such as "a friend loves at all times" (17:17), "know also that wisdom is sweet to your soul; if you find it, there is a future hope for you, and your hope will not be cut off" (24:14), "the pleasantness of one's friend springs from his earnest counsel" (27:9), and "Wisdom will save you from the ways of wicked men, from men whose words are perverse, who leave the straight paths to walk in dark ways, who delight in doing wrong and rejoice in the perverseness of evil" (2:12-14).

In the books of Jeremiah and Isaiah (two prophets of the Lord) spoke many words of wisdom and encouragement to the person of faith: "The fruit of righteousness will be peace; the effect of righteousness will be quietness and confidence forever," (Isaiah 32:17) and "Forget the former things; do not dwell on the past," (Is. 43:18). From Jeremiah: "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more (declares the Lord)," (Jer 31:34), "'For I know the plans I have for you,' declares the Lord, 'Plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future,'" (Jer. 29:11), and "This is what the Lord says, 'If you repent, I will restore you that you may serve me [...] I will save you from the hands of the wicked and redeem you from the grasp of the cruel," (Jer. 15:19,21).

As far as the New Testament, some highlights follow of instruction... Matt 5:27, Jesus is speaking, "You have heard that is was said, 'Do not commit adultery. But I tell you that anyone who looks lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart," about prayer Jesus says this in Matt 6:5-6, "Do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men [...]. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who has seen what is done in secret, will reward you," and Jesus says many other things about giving to the needy, love for enemies, judging others, etc.

In 1 Thessalonians chapter 5 it talks about being self-controlled (v.6,8) and encouraging others of the faith (v. 11,14). 1 Timothy 6:11 says "pursue righteousness, godliness, faith, love, endurance and gentleness," and Hebrews 11 is all about having faith and it also says to "draw near to God with a sincere heart," (Heb.10:22). In 1 Peter 3:9 it says, "The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance," 1 John 1:9 says that if we confess our sins, God is faithful and just, "and will forgive our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness," and finally, "Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you."
I don't see anything BAD stated in the above, and this is just a few verses from the Bible. If everyone would take the above and apply them to his/her life, the world would certainly be a better place because of these instructions/guidelines the Bible provides.

wendel1808

You have a point here... all I was doing when stating some of the basic facts of Genesis is giving an overview, exactly what you said. Which is why perhaps the whole argument of having the names of every son or daughter Adam and Eve bore together is pretty much not relevant.

It really carries no weight (to have thousands upon thousands of names mentioned or who was Cain or Abel's wives) as to whether one should believe in the Bible as TRUE historical accounts. <img src="graemlins/boohoo.gif" border="0" alt="[Boo Hoo]" /> (Because the events actually DID happen... everything in 1,2 Kings, 1,2 Chronicles is written in records, the annals of kings, etc.) Not to mention there is archaeological evidence of the flood (as discussed in Dr. Ross's articles, see my previous post) as well as lots of other things that happened in the early times... there is record of this and Dr. Ross's website also shows scientific evidence that points toward one creator, God. Check it out for yourself. <a href="http://www.reasons.org/resources/skeptics" target="_blank">http://www.reasons.org/resources/skeptics</a>

Anyways, the purpose of the OT (relating to its relevancy today) is to tell of the Earth's creation, the ancient happenings of early civilizations and help to further explain God's plan of bringing Jesus into the world... Jesus is the Messiah and the reason the old ways of the Jewish religion are not needed-- an ultimate sacrifice has been made in Jesus for the sins of all mankind past or future. Also, the New Testament allows one to see that all the prophesies about a Messiah and Savior in the OT came true (in the NT) with Jesus.

wendel1808

I personally don't feel like I'm gullible or be "forced" to believe anything about the Bible. Granted I am not Moses, I cannot give an explanation as to "why ________" (fill in the blank) about Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy (which he is the author of). Perhaps God didn't want Moses to "waste" space in having name after name recorded of Adam's descendants, perhaps God only told Moses to write what He thought was most relevant to our understanding of creation and the beginning of mankind, maybe because these books are written in Hebrew they need to be examined more carefully because one word can have several definitions or can mean something different in Hebrew than what there is a word for in English. (That's the whole problem with reading the Bible LITERALLY.) And so, one must take the Word of God (the Bible) with a grain of salt. I don't feel like I have to have all the answers to believe the Bible is true and simply have faith in 1 Tim 3:16 (see verse at the top of post) because of my personal experiences with God. If you want to read my testimony... I've posted it the other day under II Philosophical Forums, Existence of God(s), "If God exists, then why is he hiding?" But I know most are too lazy to go find it... so I'll just copy and paste it here... (I know this is getting long&#8230

How do I know He/God exists one may ask?
Proof through my own life. To make a VERY LONG story short, I was involved with drugs and alcohol for about 2 years during high school, lost my virginity, and becoming very depressed during my junior year. I didn't see the point in my existence and didn't feel like LIFE had a point. I was unhappy with my life.
But, then my best friend called me one night, and she had been participating in the same activities as I (but for several years more) and told me about a youth rally she had gone to at this church. She described the event, there were possibly a thousand teenagers in the building and all of them (nearly all) were singing and worshipping God with their hands raised in the air, some were clapping and jumping to beat of the song too. Some people talked about God and Jesus, and at the end she said the "sinner's prayer" and asked God to forgive her for everything she had done wrong and that she wanted to live for Him and that she wanted to accept what Jesus did on the cross. She became a believer (a Christian) that night.
As I spoke to her on the phone, God's spirit came to me (I know that sounds wacko) which some of you may know as "Holy Spirit" or the "Holy Ghost" and I knew that God was "speaking" through my best friend to me and saying, "Quit lying, quit the drinking, drugs, and sex and come to me." That night I also confessed my sins and it felt like a burden had been lifted from my life and I have been a Christian for 2 and a half years now.
I searched for happiness in so many things, and then I found Jesus/God, which is the only thing that can make my life fulfilled. I don't consider myself religious, but a person of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. I'm a rational being and I am a full time college student at a small liberal arts college. And actually, HRG, the Bible says that we should not just believe everything we hear. God doesn't expect us to be stupid, irrational beings to be apart of His Kingdom. I was first exposed to Christianity when I was 8, was pressured by friends for about 4 years and then finally, after I literally hit "rock bottom," stubborn me accepted the faith.

wendel1808

Whoops... actually 1 Tim 3:16 is not stated in this last post, but a couple above it!

Tristan Scott

What's all this about incest? Everyone knows that Cain settled in a place east of Eden called the land of Nod. That's where all the other people were.

Says so right in the Bible:



And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch...

Jayhawker Soule

"... all the other people ..."? Where the hell did they come from? They must not have been very nice. At least Cain didn't want to live with them, prefering, instead, to go out and build a whole friggen city for himself, his wife, and little Enoch (who later managed to become both grandfather and great-grandfather of Lamech). What a book!

Tristan Scott

ReasonableDoubt asks (incredulously):

I don't know, it doesn't say. Maybe they were already here, or maybe they were aliens.

Seriously, it seems odd to me that anyone would take the mythical texts of what the Christians call the Old Testament literally. Most Jews don't, and it's really their books.

The mythical books (1st 5) were written somewhere in the middle of the first millenium BCE. The writers drew heavily from myths that were passed down from their ancestors. The Noah story is obviously drawing from the myth of Gilgamesh. Genesis has similarities from old Babylonian and Sumerian myths such as the Enuma Elish and other myths surrounding El and Ea.

Mageth

I don't see anything BAD stated in the above, and this is just a few verses from the Bible. If everyone would take the above and apply them to his/her life, the world would certainly be a better place because of these instructions/guidelines the Bible provides.

Some selective choosing of verses there. I notice you didn't quote from the instructions in Leviticus 20, for example. If your son cursed you, would the world be a better place if you killed him? Would the world reallly be a better place if all homosexuals, adulterers and wizards were routinely put to death?

Ierrellus

Reading these posts carefully, I am surprised to find even some irrational assumptions among good arguments. The most stupid assertion is equating a theist with an ignorant literalist.

There are current gene theories that state that all humans may have descended from one African woman. See Eve in genetic theory in your favorite encyclopedia. (I wish I had known that woman!)

One fundie did tell me that genetic diseases caused by inbreeding could not have been possible in a sitation of two people with no genetic heritage (Adam and Eve}. I'd rather beleve, along with Crick, that our planet was seeded by space aleins or at least by the last couple fleeing Mars in the wake of its inability to support life.



Ierrellus

Jayhawker Soule

Actually, I suspect that the breakdown among Jews and Christians is much the same.