Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Karen M · 07-23-2002, 09:42 AM

Hello all

It is my understanding that many Christians claim that their God is perfect. To describe perfection, they claim that he is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent. Correct?

Does it stop there? Or do Christians believe in a God who is the most beautiful thing in existance too? How about the most glorious, most intelligent, etc. also?

Where exactly does the Christian God's perfection end?

[ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: Karen M ]

Jayhawker Soule · 07-23-2002, 10:23 AM

Please don't take this wrong, but I've never understood the intent of such questions. Is there an purpose other than mockery?

Karen M · 07-23-2002, 10:31 AM

Yes, the purpose is that I believe a perfect omniscient, omnipotent, perfect everything, etc. being such as this is contradictory. I therefore wish to know if I have misinterpreted Christian opinions or not.

After we clear up the exact definiton of what "perfection" IS in the case of the Christian God, if I still do not understand how it can be logically consistant, then I will start a new thread and ask about it.

[ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: Karen M ]

wildernesse · 07-23-2002, 11:04 AM

Karen M:

I think that the full scope of God is not within my comprehension--heck, calculus isn't within my comprehension on most days. But I don't know if any person could say that something is omniwhatever--wouldn't you have to be more omniwhatever to know that for a certainty?

But I'm not all Christians, and I only know what I know/don't know.

--tiba

Jayhawker Soule · 07-23-2002, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Karen M:
Yes, the purpose is that I believe a perfect omniscient, omnipotent, perfect everything, etc. being such as this is contradictory.

Thanks for the response.

lcb · 07-23-2002, 03:36 PM

i guess the devils advocate/God's advocate response is that mankind has worshipped Hitler and Stalin an Mao and Reaghan and Clinton and assorted movie stars and sports and cult heroes and these are far from perfect...so what is so hard about worshipping God?

Karen M · 07-23-2002, 04:04 PM

Thank your for your interesting response Icb, but I was not asking the reasoning behind worshiping a deity. I was asking for the definition of God's perfection or at least a more accurate description of it if one could be provided. Can you provide any information about this particular aspect of the Christian God?

Do you also believe that God's perfection is out of the range of human comprehension like wildernesse does?

[ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: Karen M ]

FunkyRes · 07-23-2002, 04:25 PM

Why is God being perfect in every way a contradiction?

Karen M · 07-23-2002, 04:35 PM

Greetings Funky

Quote:

Why is God being perfect in every way a contradiction?

That's the point of this thread; I don't know if God's perfection is or isn't contradictory yet. That is why I want you describe his perfection in more detail if you can please.

Some of the main ones I would like to know are: 1) Is God the most glorious being in existence, 2) Is God the most intelligent being in existence, and 3) Is God the most Beautiful being in existence?

Also, I just thought of another interesting question about emotional states. What is the "perfect" emotional state? Is God all-happy for eternity, or some other form of emotional perfection?

[ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: Karen M ]

Tercel · 07-25-2002, 03:12 AM

Q. How perfect is the Christian God?
A. Perfectly perfect!

Okay, so I couldn't resist.
Serious question: Does it matter? Allow me to elaborate: Your average Joe Christian would indeed probably claim that God is perfect and generally by this they seem to mean that God is variously OmniMax and a few other things. Does it matter whether that's contradictory?
Above a certain level of powerfullness there seems little difference from our point of view between a God who is very powerful and a God who is AllPowerful.

Even if Joe Christian is wrong due to not having thought through his God concept well enough, it doesn't seem to stop something so awfully close to the Christian God as makes no difference, from existing.
Thus I ask: Does it matter?

07-23-2002, 09:42 AM	#1
Karen M Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 235	Christians: How perfect is the Christian God? Hello all It is my understanding that many Christians claim that their God is perfect. To describe perfection, they claim that he is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent. Correct? Does it stop there? Or do Christians believe in a God who is the most beautiful thing in existance too? How about the most glorious, most intelligent, etc. also? Where exactly does the Christian God's perfection end? [ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: Karen M ]</p>

07-23-2002, 10:31 AM	#3
Karen M Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 235	Yes, the purpose is that I believe a perfect omniscient, omnipotent, perfect everything, etc. being such as this is contradictory. I therefore wish to know if I have misinterpreted Christian opinions or not. After we clear up the exact definiton of what "perfection" IS in the case of the Christian God, if I still do not understand how it can be logically consistant, then I will start a new thread and ask about it. [ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: Karen M ]</p>

07-23-2002, 04:04 PM	#7
Karen M Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 235	Thank your for your interesting response Icb, but I was not asking the reasoning behind worshiping a deity. I was asking for the definition of God's perfection or at least a more accurate description of it if one could be provided. Can you provide any information about this particular aspect of the Christian God? Do you also believe that God's perfection is out of the range of human comprehension like wildernesse does? [ July 23, 2002: Message edited by: Karen M ]</p>

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07-23-2002, 10:23 AM	#2
Jayhawker Soule Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,777	Please don't take this wrong, but I've never understood the intent of such questions. Is there an purpose other than mockery?

07-23-2002, 11:04 AM	#4
wildernesse Veteran Member Join Date: May 2002 Posts: 1,578	Karen M: I think that the full scope of God is not within my comprehension--heck, calculus isn't within my comprehension on most days. But I don't know if any person could say that something is omniwhatever--wouldn't you have to be more omniwhatever to know that for a certainty? But I'm not all Christians, and I only know what I know/don't know. --tiba

07-23-2002, 03:36 PM	#6
lcb Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: washington d.c. Posts: 224	i guess the devils advocate/God's advocate response is that mankind has worshipped Hitler and Stalin an Mao and Reaghan and Clinton and assorted movie stars and sports and cult heroes and these are far from perfect...so what is so hard about worshipping God?

07-23-2002, 04:25 PM	#8
FunkyRes Regular Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Antioch, CA Posts: 173	Why is God being perfect in every way a contradiction?

07-25-2002, 03:12 AM	#10
Tercel Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,315	Q. How perfect is the Christian God? A. Perfectly perfect! Okay, so I couldn't resist. Serious question: Does it matter? Allow me to elaborate: Your average Joe Christian would indeed probably claim that God is perfect and generally by this they seem to mean that God is variously OmniMax and a few other things. Does it matter whether that's contradictory? Above a certain level of powerfullness there seems little difference from our point of view between a God who is very powerful and a God who is AllPowerful. Even if Joe Christian is wrong due to not having thought through his God concept well enough, it doesn't seem to stop something so awfully close to the Christian God as makes no difference, from existing. Thus I ask: Does it matter?

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