Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Oxidizing Material · 09-24-2002, 06:28 PM

<a href="http://www.christiantimes.com/Articles/Articles%20Sep02/Art_Sep02_11.html" target="_blank">http://www.christiantimes.com/Articles/Articles%20Sep02/Art_Sep02_11.html</a>

galiel · 09-24-2002, 07:36 PM

What a GREAT article!!!!

First of all, they not only notice, and are concerned, they give us free publicity!

Second, they use the famously fraudulent "quote" of Madison that religious faith is the �basis and foundation of government�

This was famously fabricated by David Burton, a notorious Accomodationist author. The actual section of Madison from which he stitched this quote together reads as follows: (the CAPITALIZED words are the ones pushed together for the false quote)

"SECTION 15, Because finally, 'the equal right of every citizen to the free exercise of his RELIGION according to the dictates of conscience' IS held by the same tenure with all his other rights. If we recur to its origin, it is equally the gift of nature; if we weigh its importance, it cannot be less dear to us; if we consider the 'Declaration of those rights which pertain to the good people of Virginia, as THE BASIS AND FOUNDATION OF GOVERNMENT,' it is enumerated with equal solemnity, or rather studied emphasis."

The source, linked below, of the above evidence of fraud, thoroughly debunks this bit as well as other misquotes of the Founding Fathers, some of which have even been read into the Congressional Record!

<a href="http://thomasash.hypermart.net/politicsandsociety/peters-churchstatemisquote.html" target="_blank">http://thomasash.hypermart.net/politicsandsociety/peters-churchstatemisquote.html</a>

Finally, and most deliciously, they misquote the ARIS findings and say that 13% of the population are "atheist" - a total of 30 million people. Were that it were true. That is the number (well, close, it is actually 14.1%) of people who identified themselves as having "no religion", including atheists, agnostics, secular humanists, and even deists, animists, etc. But I'll take the larger number if it gets the attention of politicians. 30 million voters is nothing to sneeze at....

I just checked, and this article was widely distributed and is appearing all over the religious sites.

WONDERFUL.

[ September 24, 2002: Message edited by: galiel ]

Plebe · 09-24-2002, 09:21 PM

WoW! Great find! I just checked online to find some census record of the approximate population of the USA and here's what I found when I did an "Ask Jeeves" search, I'll betcha thought there is a higher percentage of non-believers than was discoverd through surveys

Historical National Population Estimates: July 1, 1900 to July 1, 1999

Source: Population Estimates Program, Population Division, U.S. Census Bureau
Internet Release Date: April 11, 2000
Revised date: June 28, 2000

National Population Average Annual
Date Population Change Percent Change

July 1, 1999 272,690,813 2,442,810 0.90
July 1, 1998 270,248,003 2,464,396 0.92
July 1, 1997 267,783,607 2,555,035 0.96
July 1, 1996 265,228,572 2,425,296 0.92
July 1, 1995 262,803,276 2,476,255 0.95
July 1, 1994 260,327,021 2,544,413 0.99
July 1, 1993 257,782,608 2,752,909 1.08
July 1, 1992 255,029,699 2,876,607 1.14
July 1, 1991 252,153,092 2,688,696 1.08
July 1, 1990 249,464,396 2,645,166 1.07

galiel · 09-24-2002, 10:05 PM

Sorry, Plebe, I must have missed something. How do the Census general population numbers you quoted relate to the number of atheists quoted in the article or the number of nonbelievers quoted in the ARIS survey?

Incidentally, the ARIS survey found a doubling of the precentage of people who identified themselves as belonging to "no religion" from a previous, similar survey in 1990. The nonbeliever block, at %14.1, is the second largest minority, after Catholics.

chiron64 · 09-25-2002, 08:55 PM

Quote:

But Ray Sharp of the American Family Association said that the nation has actually moved from its godly roots to an increasingly godless tilt�a shift that does not reflect the true sentiments of a majority of Americans.

How can the nation be moving towards a "godless tilt" if a majority of Americans are godly?

galiel · 09-25-2002, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chiron64:


How can the nation be moving towards a "godless tilt" if a majority of Americans are godly?

It's all part of the atheist-liberal-homosexual-lesbian-semitic-scientismic-commie-pinko-hippie-alien-baby-snatching conspiracracy. Don't you know anything?

Writer@Large · 09-26-2002, 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by galiel:
It's all part of the atheist-liberal-homosexual-lesbian-semitic-scientismic-commie-pinko-hippie-alien-baby-snatching conspiracracy.

Hey! We do *not* condone baby-snatching!

--W@L

ohwilleke · 09-26-2002, 12:09 PM

Oh dear. My managing partner's name is Ray Sharp, and quite a conservative too. I hope it isn't the same guy (I think it probably isn't).

uhcord · 09-26-2002, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Hey! We do *not* condone baby-snatching!

Well, we do, but only if it is baby Jebus.

butswana · 09-27-2002, 08:53 AM

On baby snatching:
In Marilyn Manson's book "The Long Hard Road Out of Hell", he says that they used to go to Win Dixie, steal all the hams, then go around to nativity creches and swap out the baby Jesus with a ham.

09-24-2002, 06:28 PM	#1
Oxidizing Material Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Somewhere where I don't know where I am Posts: 2,069	Wow. Lose. <a href="http://www.christiantimes.com/Articles/Articles%20Sep02/Art_Sep02_11.html" target="_blank">http://www.christiantimes.com/Articles/Articles%20Sep02/Art_Sep02_11.html</a>

09-24-2002, 07:36 PM	#2
galiel Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Eastern Massachusetts Posts: 1,677	What a GREAT article!!!! First of all, they not only notice, and are concerned, they give us free publicity! Second, they use the famously fraudulent "quote" of Madison that religious faith is the �basis and foundation of government� This was famously fabricated by David Burton, a notorious Accomodationist author. The actual section of Madison from which he stitched this quote together reads as follows: (the CAPITALIZED words are the ones pushed together for the false quote) "SECTION 15, Because finally, 'the equal right of every citizen to the free exercise of his RELIGION according to the dictates of conscience' IS held by the same tenure with all his other rights. If we recur to its origin, it is equally the gift of nature; if we weigh its importance, it cannot be less dear to us; if we consider the 'Declaration of those rights which pertain to the good people of Virginia, as THE BASIS AND FOUNDATION OF GOVERNMENT,' it is enumerated with equal solemnity, or rather studied emphasis." The source, linked below, of the above evidence of fraud, thoroughly debunks this bit as well as other misquotes of the Founding Fathers, some of which have even been read into the Congressional Record! <a href="http://thomasash.hypermart.net/politicsandsociety/peters-churchstatemisquote.html" target="_blank">http://thomasash.hypermart.net/politicsandsociety/peters-churchstatemisquote.html</a> Finally, and most deliciously, they misquote the ARIS findings and say that 13% of the population are "atheist" - a total of 30 million people. Were that it were true. That is the number (well, close, it is actually 14.1%) of people who identified themselves as having "no religion", including atheists, agnostics, secular humanists, and even deists, animists, etc. But I'll take the larger number if it gets the attention of politicians. 30 million voters is nothing to sneeze at.... I just checked, and this article was widely distributed and is appearing all over the religious sites. WONDERFUL. [ September 24, 2002: Message edited by: galiel ]</p>

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09-24-2002, 09:21 PM	#3
Plebe Regular Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Contra Costa County Posts: 168	WoW! Great find! I just checked online to find some census record of the approximate population of the USA and here's what I found when I did an "Ask Jeeves" search, I'll betcha thought there is a higher percentage of non-believers than was discoverd through surveys Historical National Population Estimates: July 1, 1900 to July 1, 1999 Source: Population Estimates Program, Population Division, U.S. Census Bureau Internet Release Date: April 11, 2000 Revised date: June 28, 2000 National Population Average Annual Date Population Change Percent Change July 1, 1999 272,690,813 2,442,810 0.90 July 1, 1998 270,248,003 2,464,396 0.92 July 1, 1997 267,783,607 2,555,035 0.96 July 1, 1996 265,228,572 2,425,296 0.92 July 1, 1995 262,803,276 2,476,255 0.95 July 1, 1994 260,327,021 2,544,413 0.99 July 1, 1993 257,782,608 2,752,909 1.08 July 1, 1992 255,029,699 2,876,607 1.14 July 1, 1991 252,153,092 2,688,696 1.08 July 1, 1990 249,464,396 2,645,166 1.07

09-24-2002, 10:05 PM	#4
galiel Banned Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Eastern Massachusetts Posts: 1,677	Sorry, Plebe, I must have missed something. How do the Census general population numbers you quoted relate to the number of atheists quoted in the article or the number of nonbelievers quoted in the ARIS survey? Incidentally, the ARIS survey found a doubling of the precentage of people who identified themselves as belonging to "no religion" from a previous, similar survey in 1990. The nonbeliever block, at %14.1, is the second largest minority, after Catholics.

09-26-2002, 12:09 PM	#8
ohwilleke Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Denver, Colorado, USA Posts: 4,834	Oh dear. My managing partner's name is Ray Sharp, and quite a conservative too. I hope it isn't the same guy (I think it probably isn't).

09-27-2002, 08:53 AM	#10
butswana Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 1,804	On baby snatching: In Marilyn Manson's book "The Long Hard Road Out of Hell", he says that they used to go to Win Dixie, steal all the hams, then go around to nativity creches and swap out the baby Jesus with a ham.

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