HelenM

Yes, thanks, that's what I think, Bree.

For what it's worth, I do think that the sexual part of a marriage relationship is important. But I don't believe that unless it is 'tested' before the marriage, it can't be wonderful.

And anyway, those who think they've 'tested it' to their satisfaction before the marriage may find things change if/when they have children.

Helen

beth

There is some truth to this, but honestly, I would not want to have to endure sex with a person for the rest of my life if I did not enjoy it. Granted people should have something other than sex as a basis for their relationship, but sex really and truely is a big part of it, at least while young.

HelenM

I understand - but, in most cases, wouldn't you think you and your partner could do something to change it, if you didn't enjoy sex? And if your partner wasn't willing to change anything, that would indicate general problems with the marriage, in my opinion.

And in the cases where there is a such a great size discrepancy that sex could never work, which other people on this thread have said does happen, surely the man at least would know that he is way bigger than average.

It seems to me that technique and inability to relax probably account for most problems in sexual relationships and these are things that can be addressed.

Helen

Calzaer

Can you know what a hotdog is really like if you've never had one? How about if you've only had one in your entire life?

Can you know what driving a car is like if you've never done it? How about if you've only driven an old volvo your entire life? Remember, you're not allowed to even THINK about driving a mustang, that's just as bad as cheating on your volvo.

It's arrogant to assume you know what something's all about when you've never had any experience. Can you learn to swim from reading a book? Can I go to a counselor to learn to be a better pairs ice skater? No. You can "believe" whatever bullshit you want to believe (the parallels here are so oddly familiar!) but trying to shove it off as fact onto people who know better is truly maddening.

Ok, hold on, back up. I'm sorry.

I'm trying something new today. I take back everything insulting I said in the previous paragraph (but I'm still curious about the analogies).

When you say "that doesn't make it true", I feel angry. I feel you're accusing me of either lying or just saying things to hear myself talk. I feel very upset and very vulnerable. When I offer up my experiences, only to have them completely discarded, it makes me angry, and I respond in an angry manner (which is inappropriate).

*flips in the book to see what else to say* Ah, here we go. That's what I was forgetting.

I want to be taken seriously. I've managed to put myself through sexual hell (and sexual heaven), and I wish someone with no sexual experience at all could at least treat my experiences as if they had some merit.

HelenM

A person is not much like a hot dog or a car.

How do you know you know better than me?

Seriously? Ok then...

But - with all due respect, why didn't you erase it then?

When you say you know better than me I feel angry. When you say I have no experience I feel angry. You know virtually nothing about me...

If you want to be taken seriously then how about beginning by taking me seriously? Ever think of that?

Just how long have you been married anyway? What do you know about marriage?

Helen

seebs

I may not know what every kind of pasta in the world is like, but I know what the kind I make for lunch is like.

And who's doing that? I haven't seen anyone with NO experience commenting.

There is, however, something you don't seem to get.

You have no experience of what it is to live your life chaste, and then have sex with only one partner.

Doesn't that make it JUST as arrogant for you to presume to know what that is like?

Your experiences are valid, but they are not the only experiences out there, and you are in no better place than anyone else to say they are "better".

You may know more about some aspects of sex than J. Random Newbie who has sex only with one partner.

That doesn't make you better, and it doesn't even mean you necessarily know more about "sex" in general - only that you know specific kinds of things.

Well, if we ever find someone with no sexual experience at all, I'll be sure to pass on that request.

Your experiences have merit, but that doesn't make you *better* than someone who has fewer or different experiences.

seebs

Exactly! Enjoying sex isn't something that is just there or not-there, nothing you can do about it.

I think a lot of people assume that the only way to get practice is multiple partners. This strikes me as saying something very depressing about how people interact sexually.

Rational BAC

WOW------

What a fast moving thread!! Can't believe that my post is buried back 2 pages ago so shortly.

Just shows to go you that just about everyone is interested in sex.

I still think that for most people------assuming so many natural things have attracted them = 2 virgins to each other, (because of pheromones etc.)---that they will have an absolute BALL on their wedding night and for many days afterwards--a honeymoon to be remembered forever.

And that is a memory that those who have already "done it" and lived together for months or years will NEVER have.

As I said before-----You can tell by the sparkle in the eyes of honeymooners and you can tell by the lack of sparkles in the eyes of honeymooners-------which were the virgins and which were not.

And, of course, there are very unfortunate exceptions to "natures rule" that sexual compatibility finds its mate. ---------And that is really a shame. But I think that that is a very SMALL minority of couples.

Just my not so humble opinion.

Calzaer

I don't like doing that... my thought process is chaotic and broken enough without me editing out the things that lead to my conclusions. Only seeing myself lash out was what hauled me up short in the first place... maybe I thought it would contribute to understanding. I mean... argh, I'm still new at this anger management thing. I don't believe anyone would really believe me if I just *said* was angry and they couldn't see the origional thought process. I can edit it out if you like.

Bree

Exactly.

Not that multiple partners is bad, or anything - if it works for you, kudos. I won't tell you that it's wrong or gross or whatever because it's your thing. Just like monogamy is my thing.