andy_d

I have a serious problem with the logic of an absolutely evil being.

If we allow the concept of evil (being actions or motivations which have entirely negative outcomes) then surely the result of simple cause and effect would mean that an entirely evil being would destroy itself?

In order to maintain itself, an entity would have to have the ability to bring about positive behaviour. It would have to, in order to persist.

So either the devil is not entirely evil, or simply couldn't exist.

Either way, the whole concept is on seriously shaky ground, IMHO. Absolute evil doesn't seem to be possible.

Amos

There is no absolute evil being because evil only exists in our imagination. Our concept of evil is conjectured to be juxtaposed with good and out of this combination we must retain that which is beneficial to further the kingdom of God (enhance the beauty of heaven) . . . from where we extract the concept good against which evil is placed to serve as future indicators in the process of identifying that which is beneficial for the survival of man.

The above is made clear in Gen.3:6 where the woman saw that the TOK was good for gaining wisdom, food etc. Evil, then, only exists in our conscious mind (TOK) while the concept good is retained in our subconscious mind (woman in TOL). An argument can be made that evil enters the TOL and this would become a negative influence for the survival of the family, clan, tribe or nation.

Only in protestant theology is man considdered basically evil and not redeemable.

Boro Nut

And even then only if he is a catholic.

Boro Nut

Amos

Yes it is universal in protestant theology.

luvluv

I agree with Amos that Christianity does not hold that Satan is absolutely evil in the sense that God is absolutely good. I don't think that absolute evil is even possible. C.S. Lewis argued along these lines, I believe in Mere Christianity, that all evil is simply the corruption of good. An evil thing would have to exist, and existence in itself is a good. So it follows that a totally evil entity could not exist. It might be more appropriate to call Satan totally corrupted than totally evil.

Phanes

I don't mean to divert the discussion from the original point (not too much at least), but Satan really is poorly conceived as a villain. [Keep in mind I only mean to talk about the two as literary characters, not actually existing beings.]

I mean for goodness sakes, his arch-enemy is God. Now Lucifer was an angel originally, so I'm going to take it for granted that he is not the stupidest person ever. Nevertheless, he is apparently content to oppose an omnipotent being. Who in their right mind would do this? I see two possibilities here. One, Satan does not believe God is really omnipotent. That seems pretty unlikely, and even if it were true, it would raise the question of whether he (Satan) is making an informed decision about opposing God (which leads one to wonder whether he is really evil, or just ignorant). Or two, Satan believes (knows) God is omnipotent. What rational being would decide to "fight" a supremely powerful deity? Satan should know he can't logically win. He's flipping a coin with two heads, but he chooses tails. I can only imagine him doing this if he has some sort of mental defect, in which case I feel obliged to lay part of the blame on his "manufacturer."

Zimyatin

This may be a little OT too, but the whole concept of Satan and Hell makes little sense to me. Why would Satan torture human souls that have sinned if Satan is in an all out battle with God? Why would he do God's bidding to punish for the sin? He should be sending out thankyou letters and treating all these "sinners" on his side to a feast of tasty christians. Pass the salt.

Amos

Our arch-enemy, too, is God when we do everything 'our' way. For simplicity sake ( to avoid the male/female conflict in each side of our brain), we are "like god" in our left brain and we "are God" in our right brain. In our pursuit of happiness we use our faculty of reason to get what we want and whatever we want is always to please our senses or enhance the image we created for ourselves to better please our senses. The urge to be pleased is placed there by God which is our animal identity wherein we are God (our right brain).

The reason why God is omnipotent is because whatever the left brain identity does "by the sweat of his brow" is in effect accomplished by the God identity who is the true aspirant of the idea behind the accomplishment . . . from where it follows that satan works at our own level of intelligence but is always just one step below the level of omniscience from where he extrapolates the activity for each day. This position prevails in heaven after they have become allies and is the reason why Herod and Pilate became friends when religion (satan here) had served its purpose. In other words, the cock-fight is over and peace will soon be restored on earth as it is in heaven.

Phanes

I have no idea what you (Amos) just said. You may want to check up on your psychological ideas though.

braces_for_impact

I agree, he really is a crappy arch villian, I mean, is he illiterate? Can't he pick up a copy of revelations? Hello!?

So he wants souls? Big deal! What good does it do him to have company when you're in eternal misery? The christian concept of Satan as a fallen demon (which is not what is said in the old testament) is retarded.