cheetah

For all those out there that consider themselves atheists, are you really? Consider the following, which has been my own thought process lately.

I call myself an atheist because I do not believe in any of the gods that are believed in now, or in the past, by humans. All of the ones I have contemplated, the texts I have reviewed, the information I have learned, seem not to jive with common sense, scientific fact, or to be generally ludicrous. In addition, in learning about the scientific data available, which robustly supports evolution, and which points to the possibility of natural developments, or no intelligent design, I am comfortable with conclusions that a god isn't necessary for the creation of our universe. That, in combination with my conviction that the null hypothesis must be that there is no god, made me an atheist.

However, now I am thinking: Can I really say I am an atheist? That I firmly believe that no higher power at all exists? No, I can't say that. All I can say is that I don't believe a higher power is necessary or a "given" with our current knowledge and that it is not incumbent upon science to prove that god doesn't exist.

But, if I am saying I am an atheist, aren't I saying that I am very confident that not only is a god not necessary, but that no god exists? But, there are so many possibilities my little mind cannot even come up with, to say I am that sure is disingenuous. In that sense am I an agnostic? Can anybody really be an atheist or shouldn't we always qualify it by saying that we acknowledge there could be some heretofore unknown presence?

And true or false, I am analyzing this toooooo much? (True) It wouldn't change my way of life at all, but the thought just came round to me one day and has been nagging ever since...

[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: cheetah ]</p>

bonduca

If, by the remotest chance possible, there IS such a being, it is a stupid, cruel, and irrational creature, and I will neither recognize nor follow it.

Does that make me an atheist?

phlebas

I'll withhold judgment on a supreme being as soon as I start withholding judgment on the Tooth Fairy.

This is a semantical discussion that crops up fairly regularly around here. In common practice, few atheists assert that there definitely are no deities with 100% certainty, in the same sense that the theists assert with 100% certainty that there are. (Or, in most cases these days, "is")

What you're normally saying by declaring your atheism is that there is no evidence whatsoever to lead to the conclusion that there are gods, so you lump them into the same probability bracket with Santa, elves, and giant green space hippos orbiting the 5th planet of Betelgeuse at a height of 5 inches.

[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: phlebas ]</p>

ickabod

I know i'm not an atheist but I do not belive in a supreme being, etc, etc. but I don't down-right deny the possibility of it's exsistance. I choose to simply admit my ignorance until I find a conclusion that suites me. Of course I will never know (nor will any other) what happens when I die until I do just that; Die. So instead I choose to enjoy all of lifes beauties and pleasures without the fear of being punnished by a merciful god that doesn't exist.

[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: ickabod ]</p>

Wyrdsmyth

I would say you are an atheist if you lack belief in any gods. The word atheism is Greek [theos = god]. Theism means belief in god(s). The "A" prefix means "not" -- it's a negation. So atheism means literally: not belief in gods. Some make a distinction between strong and weak atheism. Some would call you a weak atheist, since you lack belief in god, but you are not asserting no gods exist. A strong atheist would be someone asserting no gods exist, and might even assert gods cannot exist, according to certain conceptions (i.e., they might derive contradictions or incoherencies from certain traditional qualities attributed to god).

Agnosticism is also a Greek word [gnosis = know] So, agnosticism is about not knowing. An agnostic is someone who claims they don't know, and this is typically referring to the big unknowns, like the origin of the universe, god and afterlives. Again, some divide agnosticism into strong and weak -- strong agnostics may say it isn't even possible to know whether they're is a god or not, while weak agnostics just admit they, personally, don't know whether god exists or not, whether there's an afterlife, etc. but aren't necessarily saying it's impossible to have such knowledge.

So, the two terms of atheism and agnosticism can overlap.

[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: Wyrdsmyth ]</p>

Technos

I for one believe that all gods are false and that all things in the universe are natural or man made, thus I am indeed an Atheist.

[ February 11, 2002: Message edited by: Technos ]</p>

StarkStirner

Depends entirely on the definition of the much-debated term of 'atheism'. If you are afraid people will misunderstand your position if you ascribe it to yourself, then agnostic might suit you better. It really doesn't matter much since it won't change what you actually believe.

My view on the God hypothesis rougly corresponds to yours, and I have no hesitation to call myself an atheist. Since you have clearly pondered theism and discarded it as a belief worthy of holding, I see no reason to use the word agnostic.

Although it might, of course, serve the purpose of more accurately denoting your position when dealing with more sober belief systems such as deism and pantheism.

Dr. Retard

Since when do you need to claim perfect 100% confidence in a position in order to hold it? If someone said they were 99% sure that Christianity was true, then I wouldn't hesitate to call them a Christian. If someone said that Marx's ideas were almost certainly right on, I'd call him or her a Marxist. 100% certainty is a silly standard, as (hopefully!) almost none of our positions on controversial issues meet that standard.

I mean, maybe Ayn Rand met that standard. But for the rest of us, a firm belief is good enough to count as "taking a stance" on an issue.

David Gould

I agree with the position that you can only be defined as an atheist with regard to a specific God concept.

However, atheism is also a statement for me about what I believe and do not believe. It does not require 100 per cent certainty.

I am an agnostic and weak atheist with regard to the Deist God - I do not (and cannot) know that it does not exist but I do not believe in it.

I am a strong atheist with regard to the Christian God - I know the Christian God does not exist and therefore do not believe in it.

echidna

I think my educated summation of existence would be "there’s some pretty weird shit going down".

So on the basis of our already counter-intuitive understandings of how things work, I couldn’t rule out further counter-intuitive explanations.

But it does seem highly unlikely that such explanations (as a divine being) could be definable in simple human terms (as Jesus for instance, or Santa for that matter).

I suppose this makes me agnostic, but I’m not sure.