Barcode

Excuse me if this is an ignorant question, but ...

I've noticed of late as I've been involved with a Catholic that some people seem to apply labels to themselves without any idea what they truly mean.

For instance, my Catholic girlfriend does not follow the first commandment of loving God above everything else I discovered last night. She says she loves God with what she can, says that maybe she *should* follow the official teaching, but she doesn't.

Then she states that so many things against the Church (ie: loving relationships between members of the same sex, sexual relationships outside marriage) are actually what God intended and she disagrees with many things that are handed down.

At which point I wanted to ask " why call yourself a Catholic? " To me, these definitions are supposed to mean something.

I didn't quite push it that far, but I've noticed some friends also label themselves as Christian without (seemingly) giving it much forethought.

I would just think if somebody is going to base their worldview on a particular belief system, then presumably they would read and find out all they can about it. Picking and choosing what parts to follow seems to contravene the very definition of whatever it is you're supposed to believe.

Thoughts?

nogods4me

This has always amused me as well.
A person will say something like: "I'm a Catholic, but I belive in choice in abortion rights, and that women and homosexuals should be priests, and birth control is ok."
Well, DUH!, then you are not really a Catholic, are you?

abe smith

Eh remember that Person . began w/ "T..." I've forgotten already! who left the site 'forever" several weeks ago? and there is *Amos* also, presumably still a member alive here: posters who IMHO , professing themselves to be *Catholics* certainly disdain to let any "Church" or pope/priest/theolog/Creed tell THEM what the truth is, or what they have to believe to be members of the *sect* (sic).

No point in getting yr knickers in a twist, Barcode old dear; That Sort Of Thing can really drive ya/us-all NUTS! but the best way to deal w/ it is 1. to walk away and/or 2. politely to refuse to get embroiled in such discussions.... Lotsa luck, Buddy! Such-kind o' struggle really isn't worth the bother.

The Other Michael

Barcode,

Welcome to the problem of determining who is a True (insert religion here) (TM).

It seems to boil down to self-identification: if they think they are, they are.

Kind of the way GW Bush self-identifies as a compassionate person.

It sure makes it difficult for everyone else when words mean whatever a person wants them to mean, instead of a standard definition.

cheers,
Michael

Biff the unclean

One of the problems that Catholicism has is that many Catholics are quite intelligent. This hoists the RCC on it's own petard when you combine it with the values that the church stresses.
Unlike many Protestant sects Catholicism says that while Jesus gave you the possibility of being saved it is your own actions that decided if you go to heaven or not. This promotes social responsibility among Catholics, which is what the girl friend in the OP is guilty of, which often flies in the face of archaic RCC dogma.
The RCC also heavily stresses searching for the truth, stating repeatedly that 'the truth shall set you free.' The problem that happens here is the "truth" they are talking about is church doctrine. Very often this is not the "truth" that intelligent Catholics find when they go seeking.
So because the church makes such a 'big to do' over honesty and social responsibility you'll find many Catholics (in first world countries at least) ignore many of the dictates of the RCC in favor of them.
This is the same situation that gave birth to Humanism. Renaissance Catholic intellectuals compared the social responsibility and honesty they had been taught to revere by the church with the actual corrupt workings of the church.

The truth really will set you free. It turns out they were right all the time. What they didn't tell you is that it would set you free of Christianity.

Hubble head

When I was about 8 I told a teacher or two I thought the creator of religion was either a genious or fraud. She frowned and changed the subject. In fact, looking back, no adult would touch that conversation with me then -not even my parents.

Then I slid down the slippery slope of trying to 'fit in' and found myself a casual, cherry picking, semi-xian for a decade. I, like many still today, went along then because it was the easiest way to fit in somewhere.

I think more and more jews, muslims and xians have trouble believing the fairy tales their books and clergy still stand by to this day and it affects their overall ability to accept all the reasoning behind old (hundreds, even thousands of years old) social rules and commandments.

Homosexuality, pork, promiscuity, birth control, not taking one day off a week, all at one point in time had been observed by many people over many generations as dangerous or risky behaiviors to engage in that could damage a society if engaged in on a large scale.

Now with condoms, refridgeration, and the weekend we have gotten around that but the idiots at pulpits still try to hold onto these old concepts in the face of other safe and realistic alternatives.

The result is a cornacopia of interpretations even within the constant offshooting micro-sects that continually try to interpret the uninterpretable for their own goals and motives.

Secular Pinoy

She's probably a cafeteria catholic.

xorbie

I think one thing about people like this can be explained by my own personal story. I consider myself to be a Jew, despite the fact that my actual belief system is agnostic athiesm. The reason I label myself a Jew is because I was brought up Jewish, and it really is more of a cultural thing than anything else. Yes, I disagree with Judaism, but I think I have a very important shared history with Jews that links us in ways religion cannot (or at least even when religion does not link us). Yes I disagree with these people, but I disagree with Bush and still call myself American.

Barcode

^

I'm coming to the conclusion it's a cultural thing. She lives in Portugal which is predominantly Catholic, her family and friends all believe in the same things.

It's just rather confusing to see someone going to church every sunday, praying and all the rest of it ... then turning around and discarding some of the fundamental things they are *supposed* to believe in.

She also says she doesn't believe much in confession once a year, but goes along because you are " supposed to " ... makes me wonder how many people are doing things because they are " supposed to " and not giving it a great deal of thought because that might upset their foundations too much.

abe smith

the inputs at this thread are really neat-cool. Kudos (it's singular; a group-noun, = "praise") to you respondents here; esp Biff's magnificent "the truth will make you free... of religion."
Same structure-assertion like Thoreau's sentence "A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford."...
..[Wait for it! Ka-ching!}"... to let alone."
Gosh how I enjoy watching you-all struggle for clarity!