Freethought & Rationalism Archive

sophie · 05-13-2003, 01:14 PM

Hi my name is Sophie, and I am new to IIDB. I am not very good with philosophy. I noticed there are quite a number of participants who excel in philosophy. I am sure my question can be answered. This is my question.

I noticed our world has two distinct set of clumps. There is the world we live in which is clumped together and there are the people who live on the clump I previously mentioned.

We the people are clumped with flesh and we are seperate from the clump of the Earth. Why is this? If it is a stupid question please do not hesitate to tell me so.

Everyone says we came from one point so why is our flesh not stuck with the Earth mud? Can philosophy answer my question?

johngalt · 05-13-2003, 05:46 PM

either it is a very stupid question or a very profound question.

mhc · 05-13-2003, 10:09 PM

I guess at some point the "Earth mud" found itself in possesion of some organizing principle, perhaps like the dissapative structures described by the chaos theorists. It seems possible that some goal-oriented, self-replicating system existed prior to the organization of genetic material. Some theorists have proposed that these chemical systems are the beginnings of life.
So yes, living people are made of matter, but it is matter operating under a self-organizing gestalt, if you will, which distinguishes it from the "inert" matter. Biological life is categorically different from the Earth mud, yet maddeningly the same.

yguy · 05-16-2003, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sophie
If it is a stupid question please do not hesitate to tell me so.

I wouldn't call it stupid...but I'd sure as hell call it weird.

John Page · 05-16-2003, 03:52 PM

Welcome, Sophie.

I approve.

Quote:

Originally posted by sophie
Everyone says we came from one point......

I'm not sure about your premise, here.....

Cheers, John

sophie · 05-16-2003, 04:35 PM

Hi John,

thanks for not passing me by.

If we assume for the moment we were not derived from a single point, then I could possibly say we were derived from a set of points or we were derived from no point whatsoever.

The deal is now we are ideally seperated. The point is without this ideal seperation we might have had our feet buried in mud, waving madly at each other while those rustling sounds are apparent or some other bizarre situation.

Does philosophy have any insights about this ideal seperation we seem to enjoy at this lull in our existence.

John Page · 05-16-2003, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by sophie
Does philosophy have any insights about this ideal seperation we seem to enjoy at this lull in our existence.

Philosophy, I don't know.

IMO, ideal separation comes from separate sense data (for the ideal is always represented) therefore there is no point. The single point is a fiction of the mind where we interpolate the sense data to some finite ending. For clump read quanta.

Cheers, John

PS Excellent poetic rendering of the issue BTW.

Nowhere357 · 05-16-2003, 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by John Page

PS Excellent poetic rendering of the issue BTW.

I am poetically challenged. John, will you please tell me what you people are talking about?

John Page · 05-17-2003, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nowhere357
I am poetically challenged. John, will you please tell me what you people are talking about?

Quote:

Originally posted by sophie
....we might have had our feet buried in mud, waving madly at each other while those rustling sounds are apparent or some other bizarre situation.

for example, Cheers, John

Mickey · 05-17-2003, 07:09 AM

Sophie,

Do you mean that you find it difficult to see how you can be materially separate from the material universe?
I see our being as completely integrated with all being.
We do not see.
Light forms impressions in our minds via paths light has generated in reaction with organic matter.
We are,only because we absorb vitality from our environment.

I think there is another question;does our apparent ability to see ourselves and reality "objectively" mean that I am wrong and we are separate?

05-13-2003, 01:14 PM	#1
sophie Veteran Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: On the road to extinction. . . Posts: 1,485	Clumps Hi my name is Sophie, and I am new to IIDB. I am not very good with philosophy. I noticed there are quite a number of participants who excel in philosophy. I am sure my question can be answered. This is my question. I noticed our world has two distinct set of clumps. There is the world we live in which is clumped together and there are the people who live on the clump I previously mentioned. We the people are clumped with flesh and we are seperate from the clump of the Earth. Why is this? If it is a stupid question please do not hesitate to tell me so. Everyone says we came from one point so why is our flesh not stuck with the Earth mud? Can philosophy answer my question?

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05-13-2003, 05:46 PM	#2
johngalt Regular Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 204	either it is a very stupid question or a very profound question.

05-13-2003, 10:09 PM	#3
mhc Regular Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: CA Posts: 124	I guess at some point the "Earth mud" found itself in possesion of some organizing principle, perhaps like the dissapative structures described by the chaos theorists. It seems possible that some goal-oriented, self-replicating system existed prior to the organization of genetic material. Some theorists have proposed that these chemical systems are the beginnings of life. So yes, living people are made of matter, but it is matter operating under a self-organizing gestalt, if you will, which distinguishes it from the "inert" matter. Biological life is categorically different from the Earth mud, yet maddeningly the same.

05-16-2003, 04:35 PM	#6
sophie Veteran Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: On the road to extinction. . . Posts: 1,485	Hi John, thanks for not passing me by. If we assume for the moment we were not derived from a single point, then I could possibly say we were derived from a set of points or we were derived from no point whatsoever. The deal is now we are ideally seperated. The point is without this ideal seperation we might have had our feet buried in mud, waving madly at each other while those rustling sounds are apparent or some other bizarre situation. Does philosophy have any insights about this ideal seperation we seem to enjoy at this lull in our existence.

05-17-2003, 07:09 AM	#10
Mickey Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Stoke On Trent England Posts: 94	Sophie, Do you mean that you find it difficult to see how you can be materially separate from the material universe? I see our being as completely integrated with all being. We do not see. Light forms impressions in our minds via paths light has generated in reaction with organic matter. We are,only because we absorb vitality from our environment. I think there is another question;does our apparent ability to see ourselves and reality "objectively" mean that I am wrong and we are separate?

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